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	<title type="text">Byrd Pinkerton | Vox</title>
	<subtitle type="text">Our world has too much noise and too little context. Vox helps you understand what matters.</subtitle>

	<updated>2025-12-11T20:46:07+00:00</updated>

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		<entry>
			
			<author>
				<name>Byrd Pinkerton</name>
			</author>
			
			<author>
				<name>Julia Longoria</name>
			</author>
			
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[The quest to solve the mysteries of teen minds]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.vox.com/podcasts/471398/teenage-brains-science-abcd-study-unexplainable" />
			<id>https://www.vox.com/?p=471398</id>
			<updated>2025-12-11T15:46:07-05:00</updated>
			<published>2025-12-10T06:15:00-05:00</published>
			<category scheme="https://www.vox.com" term="Neuroscience" /><category scheme="https://www.vox.com" term="Podcasts" /><category scheme="https://www.vox.com" term="Science" /><category scheme="https://www.vox.com" term="Unexplainable" />
							<summary type="html"><![CDATA[What’s actually going on in a teenager’s head? What happens in peoples’ brains as they transform from children into adults? What makes young brains so quick to pick up, say, instruments or languages? And why on Earth do teenagers make some of the absurd choices they make? What were they even thinking?! These questions might [&#8230;]]]></summary>
			
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<img alt="" data-caption="" data-portal-copyright="" data-has-syndication-rights="1" src="https://platform.vox.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2025/12/Xinmei_Vox_TeenBrain_32.jpg?quality=90&#038;strip=all&#038;crop=0,0,100,100" />
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<p class="has-text-align-none">What’s actually going on in a teenager’s head? What happens in peoples’ brains as they transform from children into adults? What makes young brains so quick to pick up, say, instruments or languages? And why on Earth do teenagers make some of the absurd choices they make? <em>What were they even thinking?!</em></p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">These questions might sound like the domain of parents or teachers, but they’ve also been explored by scientists. </p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">And a fair warning that should be pretty obvious: Scientists don’t have perfect answers to any of these questions. But, they do have some really interesting techniques for trying to better understand teenaged brains. They’ve even been taking away some lessons from developing brains that they’ve tried to <a href="https://journals.plos.org/ploscompbiol/article?id=10.1371/journal.pcbi.1004347">apply elsewhere</a>.</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">In our latest series from <a href="https://www.vox.com/unexplainable"><em>Unexplainable</em></a>, Vox’s science podcast, we’ve picked several researchers’ brains to understand what we know —&nbsp;and what we are still trying to figure out —&nbsp;about teen brains and how best to study them.</p>

<h2 class="wp-block-heading">How do you even go about understanding teenaged brains?&nbsp;</h2>
<div class="megaphone-embed"><a href="https://playlist.megaphone.fm/?e=VMP4843135530" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">View Link</a></div>
<p class="has-text-align-none">And a little over a decade ago, the National Institutes of Health wanted to figure out what kind of risk factors lead kids down the road to substance abuse. It was a question that Raul Gonzalez Jr., a professor of psychology at Florida International University, had been studying for years at that point. But, as he told Vox, the studies he was doing were often small.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">“There was this recognition that to really move the field forward and understand what is a risk factor as compared to a consequence of substance use,” he said. “We really needed to start with a huge study that started with adolescents before they started experimenting or using drugs.”&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">And so, the NIH ultimately decided to kick off a massive<em> </em>project: the <a href="https://abcdstudy.org/">Adolescent Brain Cognitive Development</a> study, or “ABCD.” The plan was to follow thousands of kids&nbsp;— starting at age 9 — <a href="https://www.addictionresearch.nih.gov/abcd-study">for a decade</a>. At regular intervals, researchers would give them questionnaires and brain scans and track their progress as they went through their teens.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">“It was going to be the study that anybody would ever want to do, but nobody would ever have the resources to do,” Gonzalez said.</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">Gonzalez wound up becoming the head of the Florida site, one of 21 ABCD sites across the country. And he says that, once other adolescence researchers got wind of just how many kids were going to be studied (about 12,000 at this point) and for how long, they wanted to add their own questions.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">Now, a decade into the project, they’ve collected a treasure trove of data on everything from adolescent screen time to sleep and exercise regimens to family situations. They’ve collected data on how the kids approach various games, and they scanned their growing brains in MRI machines.<br><br>Already, this study has led to <a href="https://abcdstudy.org/publications/">over 1,400 papers</a>, teasing out different aspects of teen brain development. But Gonzalez says data is still coming in, and he’s looking forward to pouring through it to keep understanding what’s going on in the minds of teenagers. </p>

<h2 class="wp-block-heading">What might we learn from developing brains?</h2>
<div class="megaphone-embed"><a href="https://playlist.megaphone.fm/?e=VMP5894284185" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">View Link</a></div>
<p class="has-text-align-none">There are some things we <em>do </em>know about developing brains, though.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">In the first few years of our lives, our brains make lots and lots of synapses, connections between our neurons that let them pass signals to one another. And then, as we get older, brains <em>prune</em> a lot of those connections back. So, perhaps counterintuitively, in the period of adolescence when you’re learning a lot, it actually seems like your brain is eliminating some connections while strengthening others.</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">“Use it or lose it,” said Alison Barth, a professor of biological sciences at Carnegie Mellon. “If you don&#8217;t use it, maybe you&#8217;re just gonna get rid of it.”</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">This process might seem inefficient. Why build up HUGE numbers of connections…only to then get rid of them</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">This was, in fact, the question that two of Barth’s computer scientist colleagues raised when she told them about the brain’s synaptic pruning back in the 2010s.</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">But, when they all started working together exploring synaptic pruning in a mouse brain and trying to see what lessons it might have to teach them about building computer networks <em>outside</em> of a brain, <a href="https://journals.plos.org/ploscompbiol/article?id=10.1371/journal.pcbi.1004347">they found</a> that the brain’s counterintuitive technique for learning might actually be worth learning <em>from</em>.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none"><em>This series was made possible by support from the Annie E. Casey Foundation.</em></p>
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			<entry>
			
			<author>
				<name>Byrd Pinkerton</name>
			</author>
			
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[What humans might learn from nature’s real-life zombies]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.vox.com/podcasts/464170/what-humans-might-learn-from-natures-real-life-zombies" />
			<id>https://www.vox.com/?p=464170</id>
			<updated>2025-10-15T10:25:36-04:00</updated>
			<published>2025-10-13T07:30:00-04:00</published>
			<category scheme="https://www.vox.com" term="Podcasts" /><category scheme="https://www.vox.com" term="Science" /><category scheme="https://www.vox.com" term="Unexplainable" />
							<summary type="html"><![CDATA[Zombies, it turns out, are real — and science journalist Mindy Weisberger can give you plenty of examples of them. She’s read up on the fungi that take over flies’ bodies, partially digesting them from the inside out before forcing them to climb up blades of grass, so that fungal spores can explode out from [&#8230;]]]></summary>
			
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<img alt="a cicada infected with a fungus " data-caption="Cicadas can be infected by a fungal parasite that turns them into zombies. | Chip Somodevilla/Getty Images" data-portal-copyright="Chip Somodevilla/Getty Images" data-has-syndication-rights="1" src="https://platform.vox.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2025/10/gettyimages-1320075498.jpg?quality=90&#038;strip=all&#038;crop=0,0,100,100" />
	<figcaption>
	Cicadas can be infected by a fungal parasite that turns them into zombies. | Chip Somodevilla/Getty Images	</figcaption>
</figure>
<p class="has-text-align-none">Zombies, it turns out, are real — and science journalist Mindy Weisberger can give you <em>plenty</em> of examples of them.</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">She’s read up on <a href="https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/this-parasitic-fungus-turns-flies-into-zombie-insects-180985401/">the fungi that take over flies’ bodies</a>, partially digesting them from the inside out before forcing them to climb up blades of grass, so that fungal spores can explode out from their swollen corpses and <a href="https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-022-02027-w">claim new victims</a>.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">She’s considered the <a href="https://www.pbs.org/video/these-hairworms-eat-a-cricket-alive-and-control-its-mind-uwrojq/">hairworms that grow inside of crickets</a> before inducing their hosts to toss themselves into a nearby body of water, where the worms emerge from the crickets’ exoskeleton in a miniature but all-too-real imitation of the alien in <em>Alien</em>.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">She’s even researched the <a href="https://www.wired.com/2014/09/absurd-creature-of-the-week-disco-worm/">snails that fall victim to certain flatworms</a>. The flatworms’ larvae need to be eaten by birds to reach the next stage of their lifecycle, so broodsacs full of larvae take up residence in the snails’ eyestalks and turn them into pulsing, colorful, caterpillar-like bird-lures. The parasite also manipulates the snails into wandering into the open in order to increase the odds that a bird will spot the snails and devour both their eyestalks and the larvae within them.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">Weisberger dug into these specific nightmare-inducing examples of parasitic mind-control — and many others — as part of her effort to understand real-life “zombification” in her book, <a href="https://www.press.jhu.edu/books/title/53677/rise-zombie-bugs?srsltid=AfmBOooCYeHSBkBQgpJfukM9GSF6shrSdtnbuLYVE0ByX-GWehb5zwKw"><em>Rise of the Zombie Bugs</em></a>. What she found was that these natural zombie stories are <a href="https://www.npr.org/2023/01/30/1151868673/the-last-of-us-cordyceps-zombie-fungus-real">not only sources of inspiration for horrifying fiction</a> — they could also inspire researchers who are trying to better understand everything from immune responses to pest control.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">So we spoke to Weisberger about research on real-life zombies for <a href="https://www.vox.com/unexplainable"><em>Unexplainable</em></a>, Vox’s science podcast. What follows is a version of our conversation, edited for clarity and length. There’s much more in the full podcast, so listen to <em>Unexplainable</em> wherever you get podcasts, including <a href="https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/real-life-zombies/id1554578197?i=1000729479721">Apple Podcasts</a> and <a href="https://open.spotify.com/episode/7BPdSGAUSXxTZ0tjV7huOK?si=3617a6c6dbe94124">Spotify</a>.</p>

<iframe frameborder="0" height="200" src="https://playlist.megaphone.fm/?e=VMP9902020007" width="100%"></iframe>

<p class="has-text-align-none"><strong>Let&#8217;s start by just defining some terms. What do we mean when we say “zombifier,” or “zombie”?</strong></p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">A zombifier is an organism that manipulates the behavior of its host, and a zombie is an organism that is being manipulated to behave in a way that it normally would not, and which only benefits the parasite that&#8217;s manipulating it. </p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">Let&#8217;s say you catch a cold — you&#8217;re gonna change your behavior because you&#8217;re feeling sick. You feel like you need to rest more, you need to drink more water. These are all things that help you recover, that help you fight off the infection. So in a certain sense, that&#8217;s the cold virus generating a change in behavior, but it&#8217;s a behavioral change that actually benefits you.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">For a zombie, the changes to its behavior are not something that benefit the host. They only benefit the parasite. That&#8217;s what makes it a zombie.</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none"><strong>So it&#8217;d be like if I got sick and instead of going into my room and trying to sleep it off, I went and I licked everybody that I could lick in order to spread it.&nbsp;</strong></p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">Yeah, exactly. There are zombifying viruses; there are zombifying fungi; there are insects that are able to zombify their hosts. There are worms that can zombify their hosts. Most of the organisms that they infect are arthropods — bugs. (I do have to apologize to entomologists, because as far as entomologists are concerned, bugs are only insects with sucking mouth parts. However, as we all know, colloquially, “bugs” covers a much broader range.)</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none"><strong>What are some of the biggest categories of mysteries about how [zombifiers do what they do]?</strong></p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">Some of the biggest mysteries start with the moment that the host is infected, because obviously a body&#8217;s first response to any kind of infection is going to be an immune response. The first thing that a zombifier needs to do is to somehow get past that. That&#8217;s a big question for zombifiers, from viruses to wasps to fungi to worms: When they get inside an organism where they&#8217;re not supposed to be, how exactly are they telling their host immune system, “No, there&#8217;s nothing to see here! Just go about your business! You don&#8217;t need to worry about me!”&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">Another one is, once it gets to the point of manipulation, what are the cues? How does it decide “Okay, now&#8217;s the right time to get this host moving to a place where I need to be”? </p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">The third big question is obviously the nuts and bolts of: How is it manipulating behavior? The thing about this field is that there is still so much that scientists are piecing together about the precise mechanisms of how this works. Behavior is something that is just super complicated, even in insects.&nbsp;&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">So, when we look at, for example, the wasp that parasitizes orb-weaving spiders, scientists have found that in the spiders that are zombified,  what the wasp does — it lays an egg on the spider. The egg hatches, and the wasp larva essentially piggybacks on the spider and drinks from it like it&#8217;s a living juice box.&nbsp;&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">And the spider just goes about its business until the larva is ready to reproduce. And then somehow the wasp larvae is manipulating the spider to think that it&#8217;s time to molt, so that the spider makes a different type of web than it normally does, something called a resting web. It&#8217;s reinforced, and it&#8217;s meant to support the spider and protect the spider while it&#8217;s molting.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">And then once that web is done, the wasp larvae drains the spider dry, the spider&#8217;s empty husk of a corpse drops to the ground, and the wasp larva builds its cocoon and sets itself up in the spider&#8217;s final web to hang out until it becomes an adult wasp.</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">What scientists found is that when spiders start making that final web, their little spider brains are being flooded with ecdysteroids, which is the hormone that the spider naturally releases when it&#8217;s ready to build a molting web. And scientists aren&#8217;t sure yet: Is the larvae actually producing the ecdysteroids? Is it somehow triggering its production in the spider through another compound? That&#8217;s something that they&#8217;re still figuring out.</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none"><strong>Why is it important to understand how this behavior manipulation works?</strong></p>

<figure class="wp-block-pullquote"><blockquote><p>“In a lot of ways, this is looking at sort of really big questions about how behavior works, which is something that scientists are still piecing together, on so many levels for all different types of organisms.”</p></blockquote></figure>

<p class="has-text-align-none">In a lot of ways, this is looking at sort of really big questions about how behavior works, which is something that scientists are still piecing together, on so many levels for all different types of organisms, because there are so many factors that shape behavior. Some of them are genetics; some of them are biochemical; some of them have to do with environments; some of them have to do with social relationships. So, this is one way of trying to understand behavior writ large.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none"><strong>You mentioned that these insects suppress the immune systems of their hosts. Is there stuff that we could learn from that about how immune systems work in general?</strong></p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">Oh yeah. Looking at the immunosuppressive aspect of zombifiers is definitely something that is a huge area of interest, because that could inform the development of immunosuppressive drugs, which is something that is just something that would be hugely beneficial to people.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">Not that this should be all about what&#8217;s in it for me, but that is usually a consideration for scientific research: Could there potentially be applications for this that have medical applications? And so, there is not yet a direct line between any research into how zombifiers evade their host&#8217;s immune system and the development of some kind of pharmaceutical immunosuppressive. But that&#8217;s definitely something that is part of the mix when scientists are following that line of investigation.</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none"><strong>I think about all the insects that invade homes, some of which are beneficial, some of which are less so. Could we potentially borrow from this to fight off pests?</strong></p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">Pest control is definitely one avenue that scientists have explored. Is there some way that we can take what we&#8217;re seeing these zombifiers do to insects and apply it to insects that we don&#8217;t like?&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">So baculoviruses — which are these viruses that infect caterpillars and make them climb and then dissolve their bodies into goo — this is something that has been deployed as a strategy for pest control in China and in Europe, in the US, in Brazil.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">These types of viruses are an interesting alternative to traditional insecticides because they are very targeted. They&#8217;re less toxic to the environment. They&#8217;re not harmful to insects that are not their host species and they&#8217;re not toxic to people. But they&#8217;re also not as quick as I think the insecticides that people have gotten used to. And people like things to be quick and they like them to be absolute.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">So what seems like the best way is perhaps to incorporate this alongside insecticides, and use this along with other approaches, because there are a lot of benefits to just going full-on zombie warfare to get rid of our agricultural pests.</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none"><strong>Could humans be zombified this way? Like, are we also susceptible to this?</strong></p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">Well, there are some types of pathogens that are known to manipulate behavior in mammals and indeed in humans too. So rabies, of course. There have been medical cases of rabies-infected humans that are thousands of years old with documentation of heightened aggression. So there is already a virus among us that can manipulate human behavior.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">And recently, there have been studies into Toxoplasma gondii, which is the pathogen that causes toxoplasmosis. Its definitive host is cats. It&#8217;s very entrenched amongst human populations. And in fact, many, many people, millions of people, carry Toxoplasma gondii, but it doesn&#8217;t cause any symptoms. It tends to be dangerous in people that are pregnant or in immunocompromised people. Most of the people who are carrying <em>Toxoplasma gondii </em>have no symptoms. </p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">However, there have been studies recently in the last 10, 15 years or so, that have looked at people who are carrying the parasite and have found that there does seem to be evidence of certain types of behavior: of being more risk-taking, of being bolder. And what&#8217;s interesting about it is that Toxoplasma gondii is known for manipulating behavior in rodents. And what it does is it makes them bolder and less afraid of cats. </p>

<p class="has-text-align-none"><strong>What?</strong></p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">Because Toxoplasma gondii needs to reproduce inside cats. So it infects rodents, and then to get back into a cat, it makes the rodent less afraid of and attracted to the smell of cat pee. And that brings the rodent closer to a cat than it would normally go. And then once it&#8217;s eaten, then the parasite is back inside the cat. </p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">And scientists have found that this is true for other animals too. So hyena cubs that are infected with Toxoplasma gondii are bolder around lions and are more likely to be eaten by lions. Chimpanzees that are infected with Toxoplasma gondii lose their fear of jaguars. And some studies found that people who are infected with Toxoplasma gondii are more likely to make risky business decisions or be bolder in traffic.</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">There&#8217;s still a lot of work to be done because obviously human behavior is its own form of complicated. But there is some evidence that seems to suggest that Toxoplasma gondii can shape human behavior, too.</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none"><strong><em>What?&nbsp;</em></strong></p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">Did I just blow your mind?</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none"><strong>So there could literally at this moment be zombifiers within us shaping us in some way?</strong></p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">It&#8217;s entirely possible. There are so many things that make us who we are that shape how we behave. There are environmental factors; there are social factors. But, you know, there might also be zombifiers.</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none"></p>
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			<entry>
			
			<author>
				<name>Byrd Pinkerton</name>
			</author>
			
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[How sensitive is Greenland’s ice to a warming world?]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.vox.com/unexplainable/459406/camp-century-greenland-ice-sheet-sediment-research-climate-change" />
			<id>https://www.vox.com/?p=459406</id>
			<updated>2025-08-26T16:35:22-04:00</updated>
			<published>2025-08-27T06:00:00-04:00</published>
			<category scheme="https://www.vox.com" term="Climate" /><category scheme="https://www.vox.com" term="Podcasts" /><category scheme="https://www.vox.com" term="Unexplainable" />
							<summary type="html"><![CDATA[It sounds like something out of science fiction: In the late 1950s, the US Army carved a tiny “city” into the Greenland ice sheet, 800 miles from the North Pole. It had living facilities, and scientific labs, and working showers, all powered by one small nuclear reactor. The research base was called “Camp Century,” a [&#8230;]]]></summary>
			
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<img alt="A glacier on a piece of the ocean. " data-caption="In this aerial view taken in 2024, melting icebergs lie in the Ilulissat Icefjord in Greenland." data-portal-copyright="" data-has-syndication-rights="1" src="https://platform.vox.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2025/08/GettyImages-2162493423.jpg?quality=90&#038;strip=all&#038;crop=0,0,100,100" />
	<figcaption>
	In this aerial view taken in 2024, melting icebergs lie in the Ilulissat Icefjord in Greenland.	</figcaption>
</figure>
<p class="has-text-align-none">It sounds like something out of science fiction: In the late 1950s, the US Army carved a tiny “city” into the Greenland ice sheet, 800 miles from the North Pole. It had living facilities, and scientific labs, and working showers, all powered by one small nuclear reactor.</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">The research base was called “Camp Century,” a Cold War scientific project that helped researchers deepen their understanding of ice. As part of their efforts, they wound up drilling close to a mile down through the ice sheet to pull up an ice core: a series of long cylinders of ice that serve as a record of Earth’s history, with everything from atmospheric gases to volcanic fallout preserved in their tightly packed layers.</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">The ice from Camp Century has been thoroughly sampled and studied since it first came out of the ice sheet. It, along with the ice from many other ice cores, has taught us a lot about Earth’s climate going back tens of thousands of years — about how abruptly climate can change and the role that greenhouse gases play in warming.&nbsp;</p>
<img src="https://platform.vox.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2025/08/GettyImages-179675295.jpg?quality=90&#038;strip=all&#038;crop=9.5897133883,0,80.8205732234,100" alt="Scientists drilling into an ice sheet. " title="Scientists drilling into an ice sheet. " data-has-syndication-rights="1" data-caption="In January 1950, s&lt;span style=&quot;font-family: -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, &quot;Segoe UI&quot;, Roboto, Oxygen-Sans, Ubuntu, Cantarell, &quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;, sans-serif;&quot;&gt;cientists drill a hole in the Greenland Ice Sheet during construction of Camp Century, an the Arctic camp site in Greenland. &lt;/span&gt;&lt;br&gt; | &lt;span style=&quot;font-family: -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, &quot;Segoe UI&quot;, Roboto, Oxygen-Sans, Ubuntu, Cantarell, &quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;, sans-serif;&quot;&gt;Pictorial Parade/Archive Photos via Getty Images&lt;/span&gt;" data-portal-copyright="&lt;span style=&quot;font-family: -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, &quot;Segoe UI&quot;, Roboto, Oxygen-Sans, Ubuntu, Cantarell, &quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;, sans-serif;&quot;&gt;Pictorial Parade/Archive Photos via Getty Images&lt;/span&gt;" />
<p class="has-text-align-none">But the drillers at Camp Century brought up more than just ice. They also brought up <a href="https://lamont.columbia.edu/news/fossil-plants-bottom-greenland-ice-sheet-warn-future-melting">several feet </a>of sediment from beneath it. Except, as a geoscientist named Paul Bierman, who wrote <a href="https://wwnorton.com/books/9781324020677">a whole book about the ice and sediment from Camp Century</a>, explains, these samples went largely understudied for decades, with just a handful of papers written about them.</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">“ I think the focus of the community was almost laser on the ice and not on the stuff beneath it,” he says.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">These sediments from underneath the ice were so undervalued, in fact, that they disappeared into some freezers in Denmark for years. Until, in 2017, some researchers found them again. And when scientists finally started to study these sediments in earnest, they discovered a <em>bonanza </em>of former lifeforms and a trove of information.&nbsp;&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">On the most recent episode of Vox’s <em>Unexplainable</em> podcast, we explore these long-ignored sediments, and learn what they can teach us about our climate past — and future.</p>

<iframe frameborder="0" height="200" src="https://playlist.megaphone.fm/?e=VMP7990021478&#038;light=true" width="100%"></iframe>

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			<entry>
			
			<author>
				<name>Byrd Pinkerton</name>
			</author>
			
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[A wasting disease killed millions of sea stars. After years of searching, scientists just found a cause.]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.vox.com/science/421961/sea-star-wasting-disease-cause-new-research" />
			<id>https://www.vox.com/?p=421961</id>
			<updated>2025-08-04T11:34:17-04:00</updated>
			<published>2025-08-04T11:00:00-04:00</published>
			<category scheme="https://www.vox.com" term="Climate" /><category scheme="https://www.vox.com" term="Down to Earth" /><category scheme="https://www.vox.com" term="Science" />
							<summary type="html"><![CDATA[“It was like a battleground,” Drew Harvell remembers. “It was really horrible.” She’s reflecting on a time in December 2013, on the coast of Washington state, when she went out at low tide and saw hundreds of sick, dying sea stars. “There were arms that had just fallen off the stars,” she says. “It was [&#8230;]]]></summary>
			
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<img alt="" data-caption="Adult sunflower sea stars feeding on mussels at UW Friday Harbor Laboratories. The stars suck out and ingest the soft tissues of mussels, then discard the shells, which collect at the bottom of the tank. The sea star on the bottom, “Charlotte,” is the mother of the lab’s stars grown in captivity." data-portal-copyright="" data-has-syndication-rights="1" src="https://platform.vox.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2025/07/Adult-feeding-4.jpg?quality=90&#038;strip=all&#038;crop=0,0,100,100" />
	<figcaption>
	Adult sunflower sea stars feeding on mussels at UW Friday Harbor Laboratories. The stars suck out and ingest the soft tissues of mussels, then discard the shells, which collect at the bottom of the tank. The sea star on the bottom, “Charlotte,” is the mother of the lab’s stars grown in captivity.	</figcaption>
</figure>
<p class="has-text-align-none">“It was like a battleground,” Drew Harvell remembers. “It was really horrible.”</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">She’s reflecting on a time in December 2013, on the coast of Washington state, when she went out at low tide and saw hundreds of sick, dying sea stars. “There were arms that had just fallen off the stars,” she says. “It was really like a bomb had gone off.”</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">The stars were suffering from something known as sea star wasting disease. It’s a sickness that sounds like something out of a horror movie: Stars can develop lesions in their bodies. Eventually, their arms can detach and crawl away from them before the stars disintegrate completely.&nbsp;&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">Harvell is a longtime marine ecologist whose specialty is marine diseases. And she was out for this low tide in 2013 because a massive outbreak of this seastar wasting had started spreading up and down the West Coast — from Mexico to Alaska — ultimately <a href="https://www.nps.gov/im/swan/ssws.htm">affecting around 20 distinct species of sea stars and wiping out entire populations in droves</a>. In the decade since, <a href="https://www.kuow.org/stories/signs-of-recovery-after-world-s-worst-underwater-pandemic">some species have been able to bounce back</a>, but others, like the sunflower sea star, continue to struggle. In California, for example, sunflower stars have <a href="https://www.fisheries.noaa.gov/feature-story/noaa-fisheries-proposes-listing-sunflower-sea-star-threatened-under-endangered-species">almost completely died out</a>.</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">The question in 2013 was: What, exactly, was killing all these stars? While marine ecologists like Harvell could recognize the symptoms of seastar wasting, they weren’t actually sure what was causing the disease. From the very beginning, though, it was something they wanted to figure out. And so, soon after the outbreak started, they collected sea stars to see if they could find a pathogen or other cause responsible for the wasting. The hunt for the culprit of this terrible, mysterious disease was on.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">Unfortunately, it was not straightforward.&nbsp;&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">“ When this disease outbreak happened, we knew quite little about what was normal [in sea stars],” says Alyssa Gehman, who is also a marine disease ecologist. She says that when researchers are trying to do similar work to chase down a pathogen in, say, humans, they have an enormous trove of information to draw on about what bacteria and viruses are common to the human body, and what might be unusual. Not so for sea stars. “ We maybe had a little bit of information, but absolutely not enough to be able to really tease that out easily.”</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">Also, Gehman says, there can be a lag before the disease expresses itself, so some stars have the pathogen that caused the disease, but don’t present with symptoms yet, making it harder for scientists to even distinguish between sick stars and healthy ones as they run their tests.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">So even though <a href="https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.1416625111">a research team identified a virus that they thought might be associated with the wasting disease</a> as early as 2014, over time, it became clear that it was most likely <em>not</em> the culprit, but rather just a virus present in many sea stars.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">“The results were always confusing,” Harvell remembers.</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">In the decade since the initial mass outbreak, other researchers have proposed other theories, but none have brought them to a definitive answer either. And yet, it became increasingly clear that an answer was needed, because people started to realize just how important the sunflower stars they had lost really were.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">“ We actually learned a lot from losing so many of these animals at once,” Gehman says.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">Before the outbreak, she says, they’d known that sunflower stars — giant sea stars that can be the size of dinner plates, <a href="https://aquarium.ucsd.edu/animals/sunflower-sea-star">or even bike tires</a> — were skillful hunters and voracious eaters. They even knew that many things on the seafloor would run away from them. Gehman remembers taking a class on invertebrates back in college, where she learned that if you put even just the <em>arm</em> of a sunflower star in a tank with scallops, “the tank would explode with scallops swimming everywhere trying to get away.”&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">But all that fearsome hunting was, it seems, pretty key to ecosystem health. In many places, she says, “ after the sea sunflower stars were lost, the urchin populations exploded.”&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">And so the die-off of the sunflower star and the explosion of urchins has been connected to <a href="https://www.nsf.gov/news/collapse-northern-california-kelp-forests-will-be">the collapse of the Northern California kelp forests</a>, a marine ecosystem that provides a home for a rich diversity of species.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">A cross-state, cross-organizational partnership <a href="https://www.nature.org/content/dam/tnc/nature/en/documents/tnc_Roadmap_to_Recovery_for_the_Sunflower_Sea_Star_Nov2022.pdf">between the Nature Conservancy and a variety of research institutions</a> is working hard to breed sunflower seastars in captivity in the hopes that they can be reintroduced to the coast and reassume their role in their ecosystems. But as Harvell remembers, she and Gehman knew that no recovery project would be successful if they couldn’t find the cause of sea star wasting disease.</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">“You’re not gonna be able to get these stars back in nature if you don’t know what&#8217;s killing them,” she says.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">So in 2021, as part of the larger partnership, Harvell and Gehman, along with a number of their colleagues, launched into an epidemiological detective project. Their quest: to finally pin down the cause of seastar wasting disease.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">“Really the work over the four years was done in the trenches by Dr. Melanie Prentice and Dr. Alyssa Gehman,” Harvell says, “and then one of my students, Grace Crandall.”</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">It was an emotionally difficult project because it required Gehman and her colleagues to deliberately infect many stars with the disease.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">“It feels bad,” she admits, and they would be open about that in the lab, “but we also can remember that we&#8217;re doing this for the good of the whole species.”&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">That work has paid off, though, and now, after four years of research, they’ve nailed their culprit <a href="https://www.nature.com/articles/s41559-025-02797-2" data-type="link" data-id="https://www.nature.com/articles/s41559-025-02797-2">in a paper out in <em>Nature Ecology &amp; Evolution </em>today</a>. </p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">What follows is a conversation with Drew Harvell, edited for clarity and length, about what she and her collaborators found, how marine ecologists do this kind of detective work, and what identifying the culprit could mean for the future health of seastars.</p>
<img src="https://platform.vox.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2025/07/sea-stars-1.jpg?quality=90&#038;strip=all&#038;crop=0,0,100,100" alt="" title="" data-has-syndication-rights="1" data-caption="The underside of an adult sunflower sea star. | Dennis Wise/University of Washington" data-portal-copyright="Dennis Wise/University of Washington" />
<p class="has-text-align-none"><strong>How did you start the journey to figure out what actually had happened?</strong></p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">Well, we chose to work with the sunflower star because we knew it was the most susceptible and therefore was going to give us the most clear-cut results.&nbsp; So we set up at <a href="https://www.usgs.gov/labs/marrowstone-marine-field-station">Marrowstone Point</a>, which was the USGS Fisheries virus lab [in Washington state], because that would give us the proper quarantine conditions and lots of running seawater.</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none"><strong>The proper quarantine conditions — what does that mean?</strong></p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">All of the outflow water has to be cleansed of any potential virus or bacterium, and so all of the water has to be run through virus filters and also actually bleached in the end, so that we&#8217;re sure that nothing could get out.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">We did not want to do this work at our lab, Friday Harbor Labs, or at any of the Hakai labs in Canada because we were really worried that if we were holding animals with an infectious agent in our tanks without really stringent quarantine protocols, that we could be contributing to the outbreak.</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none"><strong>So you have these sea stars. They&#8217;re in this quarantined environment. What is the methodology here? What are you doing to them or with them?</strong></p>

<p class="has-text-align-none"> So the question is: Is there something in a diseased star that&#8217;s making a healthy star sick? And that&#8217;s like the most important thing to demonstrate right from the beginning — that it is somehow transmissible.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">And so Melanie and Alyssa early on showed that even <em>water</em> that washed over a sick star would make healthy stars sick, and if you co-house them in the same aquarium, the healthy ones would always get sick when they were anywhere near or exposed to the water from a diseased star.</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none"><strong>There&#8217;s something in the water.</strong></p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">That’s right. There’s something in the water. But they wanted to refine it a little bit more and know that it was something directly from the diseased star. And so they created a slurry from the tissues of the disease star and injected that into the healthy star to be able to show that there really was something infectious from the disease star that was making the healthy star sick and then die.</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">And then you <em>control</em> those kinds of what we call “challenge experiments” by inactivating in some way that slurry of infected disease stuff. And in this case, what they were able to do was to “heat-kill” [any pathogens in this slurry] by heating it up. And so the thing that was very successful right from the beginning was that the stars that were infected with a presumptive disease got sick and died, and the controls essentially stayed healthy.</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none"><strong>You do that control to make sure that it&#8217;s not like…injecting a slurry into a star is what makes them sick?</strong></p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">That’s right. And you’re also having animals come in sick, right? So you want to know that they weren’t just gonna get sick anyway. You want to be sure that it was what you did that actually affected their health status.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none"><strong>So you have a slurry — like a milkshake of sea star —&nbsp;and you know that within it is a problematic agent of some kind. How do you figure out what is in that milkshake that is the problem?</strong></p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">The real breakthrough came when Alyssa had the idea that maybe we should try a cleaner infection source and decided to test the coelomic fluid, which is basically the blood of the star. With a syringe, you can extract the coelomic fluid of the sick star and you can also heat-kill it, and you can do the same experiment challenging with that. And it was a really exciting moment because she and Melanie confirmed that that was a really effective way of transmitting the disease because it&#8217;s cleaner.</p>

<figure class="wp-block-gallery has-nested-images columns-2 is-cropped wp-block-gallery-1 is-layout-flex wp-block-gallery-is-layout-flex"><img src="https://platform.vox.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2025/07/04_Grace_inject_seastar-rotated.jpg?quality=90&#038;strip=all&#038;crop=0,25,100,50" alt="" title="" data-has-syndication-rights="1" data-caption="Grace Crandall injects a sea star to expose it to wasting disease at the start of a new experiment. | Courtesy Grace Crandall/University of Washington" data-portal-copyright="Courtesy Grace Crandall/University of Washington " />

<img src="https://platform.vox.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2025/07/Drew-with-a-sea-star.jpeg?quality=90&#038;strip=all&#038;crop=0,27.760577915377,100,44.478844169247" alt="" title="" data-has-syndication-rights="1" data-caption="Drew Harvell holds a sunflower star at UW Friday Harbor Laboratories. | David O Brown/Cornell University" data-portal-copyright="David O Brown/Cornell University" />

<img src="https://platform.vox.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2025/07/09_TeamPhoto.jpg?quality=90&#038;strip=all&#038;crop=0,5.5555555555556,100,88.888888888889" alt="" title="" data-has-syndication-rights="1" data-caption="The team poses in the lab at the USGS Marrowstone Marine Field Station. From left to right: Alyssa Gehman, Grace Crandall, Melanie Prentice and Drew Harvell. | Courtesy Grace Crandall/University of Washington" data-portal-copyright="Courtesy Grace Crandall/University of Washington " /></figure>

<p class="has-text-align-none"><strong>It’s cleaner, like there’s less stuff than in the tissue? Like blood is just like a simpler material?</strong></p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">Right. So, that was really the beginning of being able to figure out what it was that was in the coelomic fluid that was causing the disease.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none"></p>

<p class="has-text-align-none"><strong>So basically it’s like: <em>We’re gonna look in every sample in this fluid. There’s gonna be sort of an ingredient list. And in the first one, there&#8217;s ingredients ABC. In the second one, there’s ingredients BDF. And in the third one, there’s ingredients BYZ</em>… So it seems like it might be ingredient B that’s causing the problem here because it’s consistent across all samples?&nbsp;</strong></p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">Yeah, that’s exactly it. And so then that was very, very incredibly exciting. Wow. There’s this <em>one</em> bacterium —&nbsp;<em>Vibrio pectenicida —</em> that’s showing up in all of the diseased material samples.<em> </em>Could it be that?</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">We weren’t sure. We sort of thought, after 12 years, this is gonna be something so strange! So weird! You know, something alien that we&#8217;ve never seen before. And so to have a <em>Vibrio — s</em>omething that we think of as a little bit more common — turn up was really surprising.</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">Then one of our colleagues at the University of British Columbia, Amy Chan, was able to culture that particular bacterium from the disease star. And so now she had a pure culture of the presumptive killer. And then last summer, Melanie and Alyssa were able to test that again under quarantine conditions and find that it immediately killed the stars that were tested.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none"><strong>How did you all feel?</strong></p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">Oh, we were definitely dancing around the room. It was — just such a happy moment of fulfillment. I really do like to say that at the beginning of the task that Nature Conservancy handed us — to figure out the causative agent — we told them again and again that this is a very risky project. We can&#8217;t guarantee we&#8217;re going to be successful.</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">So yeah, we were incredibly elated when we really felt confident in the answer. It was just hundreds and hundreds of hours of tests and challenge experiments that came out so beautifully.</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none"><strong>What does it mean to finally have an answer here? What are the next steps?</strong></p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">This was the part of it that really kept me awake at night because I just felt so worried early on at the idea that we were working on a roadmap to recovery of a species without knowing what was killing it, and I just felt like we couldn&#8217;t do it if we were flying blind like that.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">We wouldn’t know what season the pathogenic agent came around. We wouldn’t know what its environmental reservoirs were. We didn’t know what was making stars susceptible. It was going to be really hard, and it wasn’t going to feel right to just put animals out in the wild without knowing more.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">And so knowing that this is one of the primary causative agents — maybe the only causative agent — allows us to test for it in the water. It allows us to find out if there are some bays where this is being concentrated, to find out if there are some foods the stars are eating that are concentrating this bacterium and delivering a lethal dose to a star.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">Now we&#8217;ll be able to answer those questions, and I think that&#8217;s going to give us a really good opportunity to design better strategies for saving them.</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none"><strong>It feels like you now have a key to use to sort of unlock various pieces of this.</strong></p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">We totally do. And it’s so exciting and so gratifying because that’s what we’re supposed to do, right? As scientists and as disease ecologists, we’re supposed to solve these mysteries. And it feels really great to have solved this one. And I don’t think there’s a day in the last 12 years that I haven’t thought about it and been really frustrated we didn’t know what it was. So it’s particularly gratifying to me to have to have reached this point. </p>

<p class="has-text-align-none"><em>Drew Harvell is the author of many popular science books about marine biology and ecology, including her latest, </em><a href="https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/723673/the-oceans-menagerie-by-drew-harvell/">The Ocean’s Menagerie</a><em>. She also wrote a book about marine disease called </em><a href="https://www.ucpress.edu/books/ocean-outbreak/paper">Ocean Outbreak</a><em>.</em></p>

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			<entry>
			
			<author>
				<name>Byrd Pinkerton</name>
			</author>
			
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[A wild project in Iceland could transform how we forecast volcanic eruptions]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.vox.com/unexplainable/413156/krafla-magma-testbed-iceland-volcanology-research" />
			<id>https://www.vox.com/?p=413156</id>
			<updated>2025-05-16T10:15:39-04:00</updated>
			<published>2025-05-16T07:00:00-04:00</published>
			<category scheme="https://www.vox.com" term="Climate" /><category scheme="https://www.vox.com" term="Explainers" /><category scheme="https://www.vox.com" term="Podcasts" /><category scheme="https://www.vox.com" term="Science" /><category scheme="https://www.vox.com" term="Unexplainable" />
							<summary type="html"><![CDATA[When you picture a volcano, what do you see? I personally imagine a mountain sticking up into the sky. At the top of that mountain, I see a crater with a fiery hot lake boiling and roiling in it, or lava pouring down a slope like bright red candle wax, or massive clouds of grey [&#8230;]]]></summary>
			
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<img alt="" data-caption="" data-portal-copyright="" data-has-syndication-rights="1" src="https://platform.vox.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2025/05/Final-1.jpg?quality=90&#038;strip=all&#038;crop=0,0,100,100" />
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<p class="has-drop-cap has-text-align-none">When you picture a volcano, what do you see? I personally imagine a mountain sticking up into the sky. At the top of that mountain, I see a crater with a fiery hot lake boiling and roiling in it, or lava pouring down a slope like bright red candle wax, or massive clouds of grey ash exploding into the air.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">It’s all incredible, powerful imagery, but it’s also really just the tip of the volcano-berg.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">If I were to descend down through my imaginary volcano, moving down through layers and layers of earth, I’d find what might be an even <em>more</em> incredible feature: my volcano’s pulsing, fiery furnace of a heart, also known as its “magma chamber.” This is the <em>reason</em> that hot ash comes bursting up through the surface. It’s the original source of my lava and my crater lake. It’s where much of the important action in a volcano unfolds — and could hold secrets to help us better predict when a devastating eruption will occur.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">The problem is that we know much less about magma chambers like this than we’d like to. We’re not even good at depicting them.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">“We draw them as red balloons,” says <a href="https://www.usgs.gov/staff-profiles/michael-poland">Mike Poland</a>, a geophysicist and scientist-in-charge at the Yellowstone Volcano Observatory. “They are not. But it’s a very difficult thing to represent.”</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">Magma chambers are so hard to represent because they’re so complex. They can be thousands of degrees Fahrenheit and have blends of solid material and hot liquid rock. These chambers have different temperatures in different spots, and different minerals melting at different heats or moving around in different ways. And, making things even more complex, there’s a multitude of different gases that might make pressure build up before an eruption.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">But if we <em>could</em> better represent magma chambers — and just generally better understand exactly how they work — Poland says we might be able to dramatically improve our understanding of how volcanoes operate, and therefore be better able to anticipate what to expect from an impending eruption. But right now, because these chambers are so hot and so deep underground, it’s hard to plumb their secrets.</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">“We don’t have, like, the glass-bottomed volcano where you can just sort of look into and go like, <em>Oh, that’s what&#8217;s going on,</em>” Poland jokes.</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">But what if we<em> could</em> have a glass-bottomed volcano that we could sort of look into and go like, <em>Oh, that’s what’s going on</em>? What if we could build, say, a little observatory deep down under the ground, right in the hot little heart of a volcano? It sounds absurd, and yet…&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">“ There’s a project in Iceland,” Poland tells me, “They want to build a magma observatory. They want to drill into a magma chamber and put some monitoring equipment in the hole. … That would give us some idea of what’s going on in there.”</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">The project is called the Krafla Magma Testbed, or KMT,  and the researchers working on it think it could revolutionize volcanology — and how we forecast eruptions. </p>

<iframe frameborder="0" height="200" src="https://playlist.megaphone.fm?e=VMP8196583314" width="100%"></iframe>

<h2 class="wp-block-heading has-text-align-none"><strong>But first, what’s missing from our volcano forecasts?</strong></h2>

<p class="has-text-align-none">One of the key motivations for building an observatory like this is that volcanology has a prediction problem. On the one hand, volcanoes are much more predictable than, say, earthquakes — they tend to give us <em>some</em> warning signs before they erupt. But on the other hand, it’s hard to perfectly interpret those warning signs, which means the predictions volcanologists can make with our existing technology can be both incredibly helpful and frustratingly imprecise.</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">For example, for the last year or so, a potential eruption has been brewing at Mount Spurr, a volcano near Anchorage, Alaska. Twice in the last 100 years, eruptions from <a href="https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/1059424926/">Mount Spurr have rained ash</a> down on the city, clogging up roadways, shutting down the local airport (one of the <a href="https://www.adn.com/business-economy/2021/05/16/why-anchorages-international-airport-is-such-a-big-cargo-destination-and-how-it-could-get-even-bigger/">busiest cargo ports in the world</a>), and settling like a fine dusting of gritty, gray, unmelting snow on cars and <a href="https://www.newspapers.com/image/1059359545/?match=1&amp;terms=spurr%20">lawns</a> and <a href="https://www.newspapers.com/image/1059424926/?match=1&amp;terms=spurr%20">leaves</a> of trees. </p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">People are understandably worried about a repeat performance, and the Alaska Volcano Observatory is monitoring the situation closely.</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">Matt Haney, the scientist-in-charge at that observatory, told me while he <em>can</em> be sure that the volcano is displaying several key warning signs, he can’t be sure exactly what the upcoming volcanic activity might look like — if there will be one eruption or many, exactly how intense they will be, or when they’ll occur.</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">“That is not possible in the current levels of technology that we have,” he said. “There’s no definitive time frame, like, <em>Oh, it’s going to do exactly this, like it did in 1992.</em> It’s not the precise same playbook.” </p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">Even with 11 seismic stations gathering real-time data about the Alaskan volcano — even with devices measuring how it is changing shape in response to incoming magma, with planes circling in the sky to understand the venting of gases, and with an enormous amount of truly impressive work — these volcanologists still can’t give us as clear a picture of the future as we might like them to. </p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">That’s tricky enough when you’re dealing with the prospect of a clogging and choking coating of volcanic ash, but it gets even more complicated when you’re trying to make determinations about people’s lives.&nbsp;</p>

<figure class="wp-block-pullquote"><blockquote><p>“This is the problem. How do you know how big an eruption&#8217;s going to be?”</p><cite>Mike Poland, geophysicist and scientist-in-charge at the Yellowstone Volcano Observatory</cite></blockquote></figure>

<p class="has-text-align-none">Look, for example, at the case of Soufrière de Guadeloupe, a volcano on the Caribbean island of Basse-Terre. In the mid-1970s, it started venting steam. That, paired with increased earthquake activity, had people worried that a dramatic eruption might be brewing. </p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">And they had very good reason to worry: In <a href="https://www.amnh.org/explore/videos/shelf-life/volcanic-eruption-causes/studying-volcanoes">1902, another Caribbean volcano eruption</a> sent a deadly mix of hot gas and ash and rock careening through a nearby city at 300 miles an hour, killing <a href="https://www.amnh.org/explore/videos/shelf-life/volcanic-eruption-causes/studying-volcanoes">27,000 people</a>. So, hoping to avoid a <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NWdFWp0XKE">repeat of this devastating event, </a>the governmental authorities decided to go ahead and evacuate. More than <a href="https://www.nytimes.com/1976/08/16/archives/guadeloupe-volcano-expected-to-erupt-72000-evacuated-guadeloupe.html">70,000 people left Basse-Terre</a>. </p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">But the subsequent eruption was minor. <a href="https://www.ucl.ac.uk/volcanoscope/files/Hazard%20Perception,%20Communication%20&amp;%20Response/Fiske_Volcano%20Communication.pdf">As one report put it</a>, the “explosive emission of steam and debris was certainly impressive to those who had the misfortune to view it at close quarters. But from a volcanological point of view, it represented a rather trivial outburst.” If anything, the biggest impact on the volcanic activity was the evacuation itself — it hurt the local economy and disrupted kids’ schooling. </p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">Sometimes, though, evacuations are extremely necessary. In 1991, at <a href="https://www.usgs.gov/news/featured-story/remembering-mount-pinatubo-25-years-ago-mitigating-a-crisis">Mount Pinatubo in the Philippines</a>, volcanologists once again read the volcanic tea leaves — stuff like seismic activity and steam explosions — and predicted a big eruption. Once again, people were evacuated. But this time, the decision to abandon the area saved thousands of lives — the ensuing eruption was one of the biggest in the 20th century. </p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">“This is the problem,” Poland says. “How do you know how big an eruption&#8217;s going to be?”</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">You don’t want to evacuate too little, or too late, at the cost of human lives, he says. But equally, you don’t want to be the boy who cries wolf, or the volcanologist who cries, “ERUPTION!” </p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">“ It erodes trust in the scientists,” he says.</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">Volcanology has come a long way since the 1970s, or even the 1990s. Scientists have much more <a href="https://www.usgs.gov/news/featured-story/mount-st-helens-1980-eruption-changed-future-volcanology">monitoring equipment set up on volcanoes</a>, and they have made better equipment over time. Their ability to make predictions about volcanoes has improved dramatically as a result.</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">But as the case of Mount Spurr shows, even now — in 2025 — the field still grapples with the same fundamental problem of precision in their predictions.</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">So how do these predictions get better? How could volcanologists further improve their predictions in order to help people make decisions about how to prepare for eruptions?</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">Poland has spent a fair amount of time thinking about the answers to this question. <a href="https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1029/2018JB016974">He wrote a whole paper about it, in fact.</a> And he thinks that improving volcano forecasting is not <em>just</em> about continuing to improve our monitoring equipment. Instead, he says, what we really need is better information about volcanoes themselves, and the hot molten rocks that power them. </p>

<h2 class="wp-block-heading has-text-align-none"><strong>What can molten rock teach us about eruptions?</strong></h2>

<p class="has-text-align-none">Let’s talk about how we currently <a href="https://www.usgs.gov/programs/VHP/vhp-uses-monitoring-data-and-volcanic-history-forecast-eruptions">forecast volcano eruptions</a>. A lot of volcano prediction involves making very informed guesses about what a volcano might do in the future based on what that volcano has done in the past — what Poland calls pattern recognition. </p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">Take, for example, gas emissions or earthquakes. Essentially, he says, researchers will take a lot of very, very precise measurements of those phenomena that will allow them to then say ‘<em>Alright. X is happening. And when X happened before, Y happened afterward, so maybe now Y will happen again soon</em>.’ </p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">“It’s not necessarily based on any special understanding of the physics of volcanic activity or that particular volcano,” Poland says, “It’s more based on…<em>We’ve seen this movie before, and we know how it’s likely to evolve over time.”</em></p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">This approach has been incredibly useful. It’s saved a lot of lives and helped scientists make some really good predictions about how a volcano might behave, broadly. But Poland likes to draw a comparison between this approach and with how we forecast the weather. Because in the past, <a href="https://pne.people.si.umich.edu/sloan/mainpage.html">weather scientists also relied heavily on pattern matching</a>. If the pressure was dropping and it was getting colder, say, they might expect a storm to come through. </p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">But then, weather forecasting went through a kind of revolution. Scientists used satellites and other instruments to collect information about clouds and winds and rain. They collected huge amounts of data about the atmosphere, and people even flew directly into the eyes of phenomena like hurricanes to measure what was happening <em>inside</em> of those storms.</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">“This really abundant information was then used by modelers…to work out the physics of what&#8217;s going on,” Poland says. </p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">Weather scientists still use a lot of historical data to inform their understanding of the future (and now, with AI, are actually turning back to their massive bodies of data to try some more <a href="https://e360.yale.edu/features/artificial-intelligence-weather-forecasting#:~:text=Weather%20forecasts%20powered%20by%20artificial,to%20forecast%20extreme%20weather%20events.">advanced pattern recognition</a>), but they have also built really sophisticated models of the physics of the atmosphere that help them make their predictions. And it has paid off: Last year, according to the National Hurricane Center, <a href="https://www.nhc.noaa.gov/verification/pdfs/Verification_2024.pdf">hurricane forecasters set new records for accuracy</a> in their predictions for the 2024 Atlantic hurricane season. </p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">“We can now forecast, with some degree of accuracy, whether a hurricane will form, how intense it is going to be, where it&#8217;s going to go,” Poland says. “Obviously not every forecast is perfect. And that&#8217;s because our knowledge is still imperfect. But they know enough.”</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">Poland wants volcanologists to build similar models of the underlying physics of volcanoes, which would mean building models of magma chambers. Scientists have been working on making models like this — and have even been working on <a href="https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0012821X03001249">applying them to forecasting</a>. But if the weather scientists built their models by flying directly into things like hurricanes and taking measurements, volcano researchers have had a bit of a harder time doing the equivalent for magma chambers. They can’t take direct measurements, so they’ve used seismic and electromagnetic imaging to take the equivalent of <a href="https://www.usgs.gov/observatories/yvo/news/science-x-ray-vision-reveals-magma-beneath-yellowstone">X-rays of the Earth</a>, and they’ve studied places where ancient volcanoes have eroded away, bringing their cooled, frozen magma chambers up to the surface. They’ve even <a href="https://www.usgs.gov/observatories/hvo/news/volcano-watch-peering-a-crystal-ball-what-tiny-crystals-can-tell-us-about">read the layers of volcanic crystals</a> as though they were tree rings. </p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">This has been helpful, but it’s kind of like studying your neighbors by eavesdropping on their conversations through the wall and going through their trash instead of just <em>talking</em> to them directly.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">So that’s why some researchers are hoping to talk to volcanoes directly — to observe their magma chambers in real time. </p>
<img src="https://platform.vox.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2025/05/GettyImages-886892102.jpg?quality=90&#038;strip=all&#038;crop=0,0,100,100" alt="Krafla volcanic area in Iceland." title="Krafla volcanic area in Iceland." data-has-syndication-rights="1" data-caption="Krafla volcanic area in Iceland. | Getty Images/iStockphoto" data-portal-copyright="Getty Images/iStockphoto" />
<h2 class="wp-block-heading has-text-align-none"><strong>Introducing KMT: The Krafla Magma Testbed</strong></h2>

<p class="has-text-align-none">In some ways, the dream of a magma observatory started with an accident. Or to be a little more specific, it started with three different accidents in three different countries, each more than a decade ago. In each case, people set out to drill a deep hole into the rock near a volcano, and in each case, they <a href="https://eos.org/science-updates/planning-an-international-magma-observatory">accidentally drilled right down into the magma chamber</a>. </p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">These accidents were a big surprise to the people doing the drilling, but to <a href="https://www.uaf.edu/acep/about/our-team/john-eichelberger.php">John Eichelberger</a>, they were a big opportunity.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">Eichelberger has been studying volcanoes for around five decades. For much of that time, he’s been curious about magma chambers. He thinks that knowing more about them could not only help us forecast volcanoes better, but also maybe tap into them for geothermal power. Unfortunately, he says, for a long time, it was difficult to find a way to drill into magma chambers and find out more about them, because people were not sure what would <em>happen</em> if you did. What if you triggered an eruption?&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">“Really the only way [drilling down to a magma chamber] could happen was by serendipity,” Eichelberger says.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">Serendipity like these three drilling accidents. They provided some real-world examples of what would happen if you drilled down to a magma chamber. And the answer was, it turns out, not all that much. In each of these three cases, the drilling companies hit the magma chamber and instead of like hot rock shooting out of their hole in a hot plume of fire, the magma basically climbed a little ways up the hole, and then cooled off into a plug of dark obsidian glass.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">This was very good news for Eichelberger. As he remembers it, he wound up meeting someone from a power company that was involved in one of these accidents. That representative let him know that they would be open to letting Eichelberger and other researchers do some more research near their power plant in the Krafla volcanic region of Iceland. And so, in 2014, Eichelberger gathered researchers together for a consortium – including a researcher named <a href="https://www.en.mineralogie.geowissenschaften.uni-muenchen.de/personen/chair/lavallee-yan/index.html">Yan Lavallée</a>, now at Ludwig Maximilian University of Munich.</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">“Fifty or 60 of us spent the best part of a week together browsing ideas as to…what could we learn if we were to do this?” Lavallée syas, “What could we learn if we were to drill back in the magma?”</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">This was the start of the dream of KMT: The Krafla Magma Testbed, named for the volcanic system in Iceland. It’s a dream that Eichelberger, Lavallée, and their collaborators are still trying to get funded, but they have a clear idea of how they’d make it a reality.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">“First, we’re going to install a drill rig at the Earth’s surface, and we’re going to start drilling,” Lavallée tells me.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">As they drill down, things will get hotter and hotter. They will pump fluid through, which will cool things down. Eventually, as they start to approach the magma of the magma chamber, the fluid will even start to cool down a little bit of that magma, too.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">“It will vitrify to a glass,” Lavallée says. This glass will likely not be transparent like a window. Instead, it will be obsidian — dark black and full of minerals. </p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">The researchers will then continue to keep things cool while they carve into that black glass, creating something like a pocket within it. Once that pocket is made, they hope to drop measuring devices into it. Lavallée works with tools in his lab that are made of the same kinds of heavy-duty materials that we put into things like jet engines and other materials that can withstand extremely high temperatures.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">Once everything’s in place, they will stop cooling things down. Then the heat of the surrounding molten rock should start warming the obsidian of the glass pocket back up again slowly, until it melts back into magma and flows back around the instruments, submerging them fully in the magma of the chamber.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">Then, hopefully, the researchers will finally have their observatory: a set of measuring devices feeding them <em>real-time data</em> about an active magma chamber.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">If this first project succeeds, then Eichelberger and Lavallée are brimming with ideas for further drilling projects that could help them tease out more information about volcanoes. They both hope this research could help the world tap into volcanoes as a source of power, but also that it could help with forecasting — to help us build the models of volcanoes&#8217; hearts that will give us the tools to predict their behavior as effectively as we predict hurricanes.</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">And overall, Lavallée thinks that if this dream of theirs succeeds, it might revolutionize volcanology.</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">“I don’t think we can really fully conceive how it&#8217;s going to change things,” he says.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">Obviously, Lavallée has a clear reason to think this way, but when I asked Poland, who has no involvement with this project, what he thought, he was also pretty enthusiastic.</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">“I am excited to hear what they can come up with,” Poland said, “I mean, you go into a magma chamber, you’re going to learn some things.”&nbsp;</p>
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			<entry>
			
			<author>
				<name>Byrd Pinkerton</name>
			</author>
			
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[At the edge of the ocean, a dazzling ecosystem is changing fast]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.vox.com/down-to-earth/405398/tidepools-sunflower-seastars-climate-change-ocean-warming" />
			<id>https://www.vox.com/?p=405398</id>
			<updated>2025-07-02T10:46:59-04:00</updated>
			<published>2025-04-22T06:12:00-04:00</published>
			<category scheme="https://www.vox.com" term="Climate" /><category scheme="https://www.vox.com" term="Down to Earth" /><category scheme="https://www.vox.com" term="The Highlight" />
							<summary type="html"><![CDATA[This story was originally published in&#160;The Highlight, Vox’s member-exclusive magazine. To get early access to member-exclusive stories every month,&#160;join the Vox Membership program today. In just a few hours, the world I’m walking into will disappear beneath the waves.&#160; I’m at Pillar Point Harbor, a 40-minute drive from San Francisco, near low tide. And because [&#8230;]]]></summary>
			
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<p class="has-text-align-none"><em>This story was originally published in&nbsp;</em><a href="https://www.vox.com/the-highlight/406113/welcome-to-the-april-issue-of-the-highlight"><em>The Highlight</em></a><em>, Vox’s member-exclusive magazine. To get early access to member-exclusive stories every month,&nbsp;</em><a href="https://www.vox.com/support-now?itm_campaign=article-header-Q42024&amp;itm_medium=site&amp;itm_source=in-article"><em>join the Vox Membership program today</em></a><em>.</em></p>

<p class="has-drop-cap has-text-align-none">In just a few hours, the world I’m walking into will disappear beneath the waves.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">I’m at Pillar Point Harbor, a 40-minute drive from San Francisco, near low tide. And because this is one of the lowest tides this August, the water has drawn back like a curtain to expose an ecosystem that’s normally hidden away — a place called the rocky intertidal, or, because the receding water leaves little pools behind in the rocks, “the tidepools.”</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">Dawn has just broken, pods of pelicans fly overhead, and sea lions bark from the nearby harbor. But I’m more focused on following my guide, a zoologist named Rebecca Johnson, as she picks her way out into these seaweed-covered rocks, pointing out species as she goes. These smooth green strands are surfgrass. Those fat bladders of air that look kind of like puffed-up gloves are called “seasack.” This dark brown frond Johnson is draping over her shoulders is the aptly named “feather boa kelp.”&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">“ They’re like wildflowers,” Johnson says, “But it’s seaweed.”</p>
<img src="https://platform.vox.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2025/03/Rebecca-Johnson-feather-boa-1.jpg?quality=90&#038;strip=all&#038;crop=0,5.5555555555556,100,88.888888888889" alt="Rebecca Johnson wears a feather boa kelp like a feather boa. " title="Rebecca Johnson wears a feather boa kelp like a feather boa. " data-has-syndication-rights="1" data-caption="Rebecca Johnson wears a feather boa kelp like a feather boa. | Byrd Pinkerton/Vox" data-portal-copyright="Byrd Pinkerton/Vox" />
<p class="has-text-align-none">As we make our way deeper, she points out odd creatures that only the ocean could dream up. A boring clam (which is far from boring, but does bore into rock) puffs itself up like a fierce fleshy ball before squirting a jet of water directly into the air to fend off our threatening vibes. A pale white brittle star, like a flexible daddy longlegs, dances for us across some algae. And rows of fat green anemones wear bits of shells like tiny hats.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">“ The theory is that…they’re protecting themselves from the sun, like a sunscreen,” Johnson tells me.</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">We crouch together at the edge of a deep pool and see first one, then two — then three, four, five, <em>six! </em>— species of nudibranchs, the sea slugs that Johnson specializes in. One is hot pink and spiky. Another is an aggressive shade of orange. There’s a pale lemon one, a ghostly white one. Johnson even finds one covered in orange polka dots, like a marine clown. Some of these species, she tells me, bubbling with enthusiasm, eat anemones and steal their stinging cells, repurposing them as their own defenses.</p>
<img src="https://platform.vox.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2025/03/orange-polka-dotted-sea-slug.jpeg?quality=90&#038;strip=all&#038;crop=0,5.5555555555556,100,88.888888888889" alt="An orange polka-dotted sea slug. " title="An orange polka-dotted sea slug. " data-has-syndication-rights="1" data-caption="An orange polka-dotted nudibranch, known as a “sea clown.” | Byrd Pinkerton/Vox" data-portal-copyright="Byrd Pinkerton/Vox" />
<p class="has-text-align-none">This kind of diversity is wild to witness, but it isn’t unusual for these tidepools.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">“It’s one of the places in the world that you can see species of invertebrates all really, really concentrated,” Johnson told me.</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">We wander farther out, exploring this alien landscape together, until the tide begins to come back in and cover it over, bit by bit, hiding this weird world away again in a slow disappearing act.</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">“ It’s extra magical that you can only see it at certain times,” Johnson told me before we came out here. “You get this little peek, this little window. And that’s one of the things I love the most about it.”</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">Johnson has been coming to this exact spot off Pillar Point for almost three decades now, and in her role as <a href="https://www.calacademy.org/staff/ibss/citizen-science/rebecca-johnson">director for the Center for Biodiversity and Community Science for the California Academy of Sciences</a>, she spends time with volunteers monitoring tidepools up and down the California coasts. But she’s still enchanted with them.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">I’m not surprised. I fell in love with tidepools myself 20 years ago, when I first got to explore them as a kid at a summer camp in Mendocino. The odd, colorful creatures in them made me feel like magic was a little bit real, that science could feel like fantasy. It’s part of the reason I’m a science reporter today.&nbsp;</p>
<div class="spotify-embed"><iframe src="https://open.spotify.com/embed/episode/6KewL3RU1AeqNsxVFlNFMQ" width="100%" height="152" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen="" allow="autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; fullscreen; picture-in-picture" loading="lazy"></iframe></div>
<p class="has-text-align-none">But Johnson is worried about the future of these tidepools she loves so much. She’s worried that, like so many ecosystems around the world,<strong> </strong>they may be heading toward a much more dramatic, much more permanent disappearing act.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">So she, along with many, many collaborators all across the state of California and beyond, is doing what many scientists are trying to do for the ecosystems they study: to figure out — first, what’s actually happening to them, and second, what, if anything, we can do to save them.&nbsp;</p>
<img src="https://platform.vox.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2025/03/IMG_0391.jpg?quality=90&#038;strip=all&#038;crop=0,5.5555555555556,100,88.888888888889" alt="The sun rises on a California tidepool" title="The sun rises on a California tidepool" data-has-syndication-rights="1" data-caption="The sun rises over tide pools in Fort Bragg, California. | Byrd Pinkerton/Vox" data-portal-copyright="Byrd Pinkerton/Vox" />
<h2 class="wp-block-heading has-text-align-none"><strong>How did we get here?&nbsp;</strong></h2>

<p class="has-text-align-none">For Rebecca Johnson, the troubles really began around the arrival of “<a href="https://www.fisheries.noaa.gov/feature-story/looking-back-blob-record-warming-drives-unprecedented-ocean-change">The Blob</a>”: a marine heatwave. By 2014, it had warmed waters significantly along the West Coast of the United States. Johnson was hearing concerning things from participants in the programs she organized through Cal Academy to get people to go into the tidepools and make observations.</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">“They started seeing an increase in this really beautiful pink nudibranch called the Hopkins Rose nudibranch,” she says.&nbsp;</p>
<img src="https://platform.vox.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2025/03/Vox-1-Spot-1-v1.png?quality=90&#038;strip=all&#038;crop=0,0,100,100" alt="" title="" data-has-syndication-rights="1" data-caption="" data-portal-copyright="Ruby Ash for Vox" />
<p class="has-text-align-none">Historically, the Hopkins Rose nudibranch has lived in Southern California — and ventured up to Johnson’s more northern tidepools mostly during El Niño years. But as the temperatures shifted for the Blob, the spiky pink balls were showing up in huge numbers.</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">“<a href="https://phys.org/news/2015-01-scientists-link-skyrocketing-sea-slug.html">It became the most common thing</a>,” Johnson remembers.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">She was also hearing disturbing reports about another animal — the sea star, known more colloquially as the starfish.</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">As early as 2013, before The Blob really hit, divers and researchers had started noticing that sea stars were, quite literally, wasting away.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">“They were seeing white lesions on starfishes. And they were seeing the starfish kind of disintegrate in front of them,” she says. “[They would] see it one day with these lesions. They’d&nbsp;come back the next day and it was like almost dissolved and then almost gone.”&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">Sea star wasting also isn’t unheard of, but in this instance, the wasting hit species after species of sea stars — <a href="https://marine.ucsc.edu/data-products/sea-star-wasting/">at least 20 species in all</a><em>. </em>Also, as an evolutionary ecologist who studied this outbreak, <a href="mailto:lauren@sunflowerstarlab.org">Lauren Schiebelhut</a>, told me, wasting normally happens on a more local scale — isolated to a single bay, for example.</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">“For it to spread across the entire West Coast here, that was something we had not seen before,” Schiebelhut says.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">Scientists have been trying to work out what caused this massive shift for over a decade. Some theorized that it was a virus, and people have <a href="https://marine.ucsc.edu/data-products/sea-star-wasting/">investigated</a> <a href="https://www.fisheries.noaa.gov/endangered-species-conservation/infographic-sunflower-sea-star-wasting-syndrome-pandemic">the</a> possibility of a bacterial issue. One researcher told me that her team is close to publishing a paper that should provide some more answers about an infectious agent here. But whatever the exact cause — and even though the wasting started before The Blob set in — <a href="https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciadv.aau7042">scientists studying one species of sea star found that the biggest declines coincided with the warmer temperatures</a>. Huge numbers of sea stars wasted away — <a href="https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0192870">with some locations losing over 90 percent of their stars</a>.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">The Blob “certainly seemed to exacerbate it,” Schiebelhut says.</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">At one point, Johnson went down to her favorite tidepooling spot, Pillar Point, with a colleague, just to “see what they could see,” and they saw almost no sea stars.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">“It was just like the most bizarre feeling,” she says. “I was still at this place that was spectacularly beautiful, covered with algae. All these other invertebrates are there. But there&#8217;s just something kind of off about it.”</p>
<img src="https://platform.vox.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2025/03/IMG_2601.jpeg?quality=90&#038;strip=all&#038;crop=0,5.5555555555556,100,88.888888888889" alt="" title="" data-has-syndication-rights="1" data-caption="" data-portal-copyright="Byrd Pinkerton/Vox" />
<p class="has-text-align-none">She says it was like going into your room, only to realize that someone has moved all your stuff very slightly.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">“And you’re like, ‘What&#8217;s wrong with this room?’ It had that disconcerting, unsettling feeling.”</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">This place Johnson knew so well — had been documenting and sharing with people for decades — suddenly felt unfamiliar. And at that moment, she felt a deep, deep uncertainty about its future.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">“Like, there might not be starfish, like <em>ever</em>,” she remembers thinking, “What does that mean?”</p>

<h2 class="wp-block-heading has-text-align-none"><strong>What it would mean to lose so many sea stars</strong></h2>

<p class="has-text-align-none">The reason that Johnson was so worried about sea stars was not just that the tidepools at Pillar Point looked different. She was worried about the role sea stars play in the tidepools ecosystem. To us, they might seem like pretty creatures that come in a fun shape, but to many of the ocean animals they interact with, they are voracious predators that help keep their ecosystems in balance — chowing down on everything from mussels and barnacles to snails.&nbsp;&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">To understand why this is so important, let’s journey a little beyond the tidepools, a little farther offshore, into the California kelp forests. These are underwater forests of algae that are home to a huge diversity of animals, from fish and octopi to abalone. <a href="https://coastalscience.noaa.gov/project/untangling-how-canopy-kelp-contributes-to-coastal-resilience-in-the-u-s-pacific/">Kelp forests also provide a buffer for the coast against erosion</a>, and <a href="https://www.newscientist.com/article/2369412-kelp-forests-capture-nearly-5-million-tonnes-of-co2-annually/">they absorb and store large amounts of carbon dioxide,</a> which benefits all of us as we try to stave off climate change. So they’re amazing ecosystems.</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">But, like any forest, California’s coastal kelp forest has grazers — basically the marine equivalent of deer. In this case, these are animals like the purple sea urchin, a spiky purple pincushion that chows down enthusiastically on kelp.&nbsp;</p>
<img src="https://platform.vox.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2025/03/Vox-1-Spot-2-v1.png?quality=90&#038;strip=all&#038;crop=0,0,100,100" alt="" title="" data-has-syndication-rights="1" data-caption="" data-portal-copyright="Ruby Ash for Vox" />
<p class="has-text-align-none">Normally, Peter Roopnarine, a paleontologist at the California Academy of Sciences who has studied kelp forests tells me, sea urchins are content to eat the bits of detritus that the kelp shed naturally. But if <a href="https://news.ucsb.edu/2022/020679/prickly-situation">there isn’t enough kelp detritus to go around</a>, urchins can start feeding on the living kelp itself.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">“ That will happen if, for example, there are not enough predators around to keep their population in control, to keep them hiding,” Roopnarine says. “ Pretty soon they kill the kelp, and what you’re left with is what we call an urchin barren, which are these stretches of seafloor that are covered with urchins. And nothing else.”&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">Sea otters are one of the predators — one of the wolves, to continue the metaphor, to our urchin deer — <a href="https://www.kqed.org/science/1973217/in-central-california-sea-otters-feast-on-purple-urchins-and-thats-good-for-kelp">keeping urchins in check</a> along some parts of the coast. Sea otters were hunted aggressively by European settlers, and have not returned along the northern part of the coast, but have <a href="https://www.npr.org/2024/02/08/1229808022/california-sea-otters-nearly-went-extinct-now-theyre-rescuing-their-coastal-habi">made a comeback</a> in central California.&nbsp;&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">Another important wolf for these kelp forests, though, is a sea star known as pycnopodia helianthoides,<em> </em>or the “sunflower sea star.” Sunflower sea stars are beautiful, often purple or pink, and kind of squishy. But they are also, at least as sea stars go, <em>big</em>. They can have 20 arms, and grow to the size of a dinner plate or larger. (As a kid, when we found them in the tidepools, we used to have to hold them in two hands.) And researchers have increasingly found that they, too, did a lot of work to <a href="https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/10.1098/rspb.2022.1897">keep urchins in check</a>. &nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">This is why it was such a big deal when the sea star wasting syndrome hit and wiped out so many sea stars, sunflower sea stars very much included.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">After the sickness, a lot of sea star species did start to come back. You can find sea stars like ochre stars, leather stars, and bat stars in California tidepools, for example. But while sunflower sea stars can still be found in the wild further north, in places like Washington state, they have not bounced back along the coast of California. And that, scientists suggest, may have contributed to the issues they’re now seeing in kelp forests.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">Satellite surveys from a few years ago showed that <a href="https://www.nsf.gov/news/collapse-northern-california-kelp-forests-will-be">the kelp forests off of Northern California have shrunk by 95 percent</a>. Once again, this is probably due to a <a href="https://new.nsf.gov/news/collapse-northern-california-kelp-forests-will-be">combination</a> of factors. High water temperatures may have weakened the kelp, for example. But another factor was the explosion of urchin populations.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">“This lack of the sunflower star in the kelp forest, especially in Northern California,” Johnson says, “led to the increase of urchins. And the urchins then ate all the kelp.”</p>

<h2 class="wp-block-heading has-text-align-none"><strong>What does this mean for the future of these tidepools?&nbsp;</strong></h2>

<p class="has-text-align-none">The tidepools haven’t been hit as hard as the kelp forests. Clearly, as our visit in August showed, a place like Pillar Point has not turned into the equivalent of an urchin barren and is instead still home to a diversity of creatures.&nbsp;&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">Still, Johnson says, they have been affected. She has, anecdotally, noticed grazing species like abalone that normally spend more of their time in the kelp forests moving over to tidepools, probably in search of kelp to eat. And as <a href="https://oehha.ca.gov/climate-change/epic-2022/impacts-physical-systems/coastal-ocean-temperature">temperatures continue warming over time</a>, tidepool ecosystems are changing in other ways. <a href="https://oehha.ca.gov/epic/impacts-biological-systems/nudibranch-range-shift">A recent paper showed that a species of nudibranch range has moved northward</a>. Another study showed that a whole bunch of different marine species, including nudibranchs, but also species of snail, lobster, and crab&nbsp;<a href="https://www.ucdavis.edu/climate/news/unprecedented-number-of-warm-water-species-moved-northward-during-marine-heatwave">were spotted farther north than their usual range during a heat wave</a>. Some of these species are predators that might shake up the dynamics and the ecosystems they&#8217;re coming into.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">“We don’t actually know what happens when they move north,” Johnson says. “ We don’t really know the impact.”&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">And then, as Schiebelhut, the geneticist who studies sea stars, told me, there are other stressors like pollution and runoff from wildfires. In January, more than 57,000 acres burned from a series of wildfires in Greater Los Angeles — a disaster whose scope of damage on intertidal ecosystems is not yet clear, researchers told me.</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">&nbsp;“The disturbances are becoming more frequent, more intense,” Schiebelhut says. “It is a challenge to the system.”&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">Johnson admits that it’s hard to know exactly how to interpret all these changes and stressors and use them to predict the future of the tidepools. After all, the California coastal ecosystems have survived <a href="https://www.npr.org/2024/02/08/1229808022/california-sea-otters-nearly-went-extinct-now-theyre-rescuing-their-coastal-habi">the loss of important </a><a href="https://www.calacademy.org/press/releases/academy-researchers-reveal-how-extinct-steller%E2%80%99s-sea-cow-shaped-kelp-forests">species before</a>, and survived big natural disasters too.&nbsp;</p>

<figure class="wp-block-gallery has-nested-images columns-2 is-cropped wp-block-gallery-2 is-layout-flex wp-block-gallery-is-layout-flex"><img src="https://platform.vox.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2025/03/IMG_2414-rotated.jpeg?quality=90&#038;strip=all&#038;crop=0,25,100,50" alt="" title="" data-has-syndication-rights="1" data-caption="A brittle star dances across the algae." data-portal-copyright="" />

<img src="https://platform.vox.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2025/03/IMG_2524-rotated.jpeg?quality=90&#038;strip=all&#038;crop=0,25,100,50" alt="" title="" data-has-syndication-rights="1" data-caption="" data-portal-copyright="" />

<img src="https://platform.vox.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2025/03/IMG_0438.jpg?quality=90&#038;strip=all&#038;crop=0,25,100,50" alt="" title="" data-has-syndication-rights="1" data-caption="My favorite sea slug: an opalescent nudibranch." data-portal-copyright="" /></figure>

<p class="has-text-align-none">So I turned to Roopnarine, the paleontologist. He studies how ancient ecosystems weathered — or didn’t weather — things like climate change, and what we might learn from them to apply to ecosystems facing challenges today. I hoped he would have a sense of how the current moment fits into the bigger patterns of history.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">“If you look in the fossil record,” he told me, “one of the things that&#8217;s really remarkable is that ecosystems can last a very long time. Millions of years. Species will come and go in those ecosystems, but what they do, who they do it to, and so on? That doesn’t change.”</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">Ecosystems are a little like, say, a baseball team. You’ll always need certain players in certain roles — pitchers and catchers and shortstops and outfielders. Different players can retire and be replaced by other players — if one predator disappears, another predator might be able to take over some of the role that it plays, for example.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">But Roopnarine’s research into the fossil record also shows that no ecosystem baseball team is <em>endlessly</em> flexible.</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">“They do eventually come to an end,” he says. Usually, that’s when really extreme changes occur. And when he looks at the moments in the past when the climate changed dramatically, and he looks at forecasts for our future, he’s very worried.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">“We have to be realistic that if we do nothing, the future is extremely grim,” he tells me, “There is no sugarcoating it.”</p>

<h2 class="wp-block-heading has-text-align-none"><strong>What can we do?&nbsp;</strong></h2>

<p class="has-text-align-none">When it comes to safeguarding the future health of California’s coastal ecosystems, there <em>are</em> lots of people doing lots of things.</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">Johnson is working with colleagues on a system that uses the <a href="https://www.calacademy.org/calcoast">community science app iNaturalist to better monitor the health of coastal tidepools.</a>&nbsp;</p>
<img src="https://platform.vox.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2025/03/IMG_2657.jpg?quality=90&#038;strip=all&#038;crop=0,3.125,100,93.75" alt="" title="" data-has-syndication-rights="1" data-caption="The Steinhart Aquarium is one of several institutions where researchers are raising and studying baby sunflower stars. This tiny star has two new arms growing. | Byrd Pinkerton" data-portal-copyright="Byrd Pinkerton" />
<p class="has-text-align-none">Anyone who goes to the tide pools <a href="https://www.calacademy.org/calcoast">can upload photos of all the species</a> that they see. Those photos, geotagged with locations and timestamps, will hopefully help researchers figure out how populations are changing, to model the future of this ecosystem. They could also potentially serve as a warning system if there are big die-offs again, so scientists can try and intervene earlier.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">Schiebelhut <a href="https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.1800285115">has studied the genomes</a> of sea stars that <em>did</em> recover, to see what can be learned about what made them so resilient to wasting.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">The California state government has partnered <a href="https://opc.ca.gov/2022/06/press-release-urchin-removal/">with nonprofits and commercial fishermen to clear urchins and restore kelp.</a>&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">And then there’s the consortium of institutions up and down the coast, all <a href="https://www.vox.com/down-to-earth/356756/down-to-earth-restoring-the-functionally-extinct-sunflower-sea-star">working on an initiative </a>to try to breed sunflower sea stars in captivity so that they might, eventually, be released back into the wild and resume their role as key predators.</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">“ There is no one person that can do all the things,” says Ashley Kidd, a project manager at the <a href="https://www.sunflowerstarlab.org/">Sunflower Star Lab</a>, one of the many groups working together to bring sunflower sea stars back. What gives her hope is that so many different people, from so many institutions, are working together toward solutions.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">“ You can’t have all the knowledge of disease ecology, behavioral ecology, aquaculture by yourself,” Kidd says. “It is a much bigger, wonderful group of people that you get to work with and then be connected with. … You’re not alone.”</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">When I first heard that these tidepools might be in trouble, I felt an overwhelming sense of loss.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">This ecosystem made me believe that the real world had its own magic — because sure, fairies might not be real, but opalescent nudibranchs come pretty close. It hurts to think that that magic might dim, or even disappear. But walking through these pools with Johnson and watching her walk over to a mother and her daughter to show them nudibranchs, eagerly sharing this world with strangers, I felt delight, and a wonderful sense of <em>present-</em>ness. I felt part of that community. A sense that, whatever the future of these tidepools might look like, they were <em>here</em>, <em>now</em>, and as magical as ever.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">“In the midst of climate change and a future that is going to be hotter and harder and more difficult for people, you have to have joy,” Johnson says. “I struggle with it. I feel like marine systems especially are pretty complicated to think about restoring. <em>What do you actually do out here? How do you protect things?</em>…But you can’t stop doing it, because then you’ve kind of lost everything.”</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none"></p>
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									</content>
			
					</entry>
			<entry>
			
			<author>
				<name>Byrd Pinkerton</name>
			</author>
			
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[Why did we think Neanderthals weren’t smart?]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.vox.com/unexplainable/389768/neanderthal-science-was-wrong" />
			<id>https://www.vox.com/?p=389768</id>
			<updated>2024-12-11T12:31:12-05:00</updated>
			<published>2024-12-08T07:00:00-05:00</published>
			<category scheme="https://www.vox.com" term="Podcasts" /><category scheme="https://www.vox.com" term="Science" /><category scheme="https://www.vox.com" term="Science of Everyday Life" /><category scheme="https://www.vox.com" term="Unexplainable" />
							<summary type="html"><![CDATA[H.G. Wells is probably best known for his story about an alien invasion, “The War of the Worlds,” and some of his other fantastical science fiction. But he also dabbled in some less well known prehistorical fiction. In 1921, he published a story about early modern humans and Neanderthals called “The Grisly Folk.”&#160; In it, [&#8230;]]]></summary>
			
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<figure>

<img alt="A progression of human evolution shown in a drawing on a chalk board. " data-caption="Historically, our stories about Neanderthals have revealed a lot more about ourselves than about the group of early humans." data-portal-copyright="" data-has-syndication-rights="1" src="https://platform.vox.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/12/GettyImages-163746345.jpg?quality=90&#038;strip=all&#038;crop=0,0,100,100" />
	<figcaption>
	Historically, our stories about Neanderthals have revealed a lot more about ourselves than about the group of early humans.	</figcaption>
</figure>
<p class="has-text-align-none">H.G. Wells is probably best known for his story about an alien invasion, “The War of the Worlds,” and some of his other fantastical science fiction. But he also dabbled in some less well known prehistorical fiction. In 1921, he published a story about early modern humans and Neanderthals called “<a href="https://gutenberg.net.au/ebooks06/0602061h.html">The Grisly Folk</a>.”&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">In it, a group of early modern humans is wandering around. Wells makes it clear that he does not think they are especially refined. They engage in scintillating dialogue like:</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none"><em>“Ugh!” said one abruptly and pointed.</em></p>

<p class="has-text-align-none"><em>“Ugh!” cried his brother.</em></p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">But though these “true men,” as Wells calls them, were “still savages, very prone to violence and convulsive in their lusts and desires,” they were, he claims, recognizably human.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">“We can understand something of what was going on in their minds, those of us who can remember the fears, desires, fancies and superstitions of our childhood,” he says.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">By contrast, the antagonists of this particular story, the “grisly men,” are not recognizably human at all. These are Neanderthals, and, Wells imagines, they were less intelligent than “true men”; they “had no speech” and “did not understand.” They were less social than true men, and senselessly violent. In the story, they make a hobby of making off with the children of “true men.”&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">And, in Wells’s version of events, they treated their own children no better. He writes descriptions like:&nbsp;</p>

<blockquote class="wp-block-quote has-text-align-none is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow">
<p class="has-text-align-none"><em>“A male may have gone with a female or so; perhaps they parted in the winter and came together in the summer; when his sons grew big enough to annoy him, the grisly man killed them or drove them off. If he killed them he may have eaten them. If they escaped him they may have returned to kill him. The grisly folk may have had long unreasoning memories and very set purposes.”</em></p>
</blockquote>

<p class="has-text-align-none">In short: Wells assumed Neanderthals were unintelligent brutes. And he was absolutely not alone. For around a century, this was the prevailing narrative about Neanderthals. It was present, not just in Wells’s imagination, but in scientific papers.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">In more recent decades, we’ve realized that this narrative is <a href="https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/rethinking-neanderthals-83341003/">almost</a> <a href="https://knowablemagazine.org/content/article/society/2023/new-finds-about-neanderthal-brains-and-behavior">certainly</a> <a href="https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0096424">incorrect</a>. Researchers have revisited old Neanderthal bones and tools, and realized that our prior understanding of these early human peoples was misguided.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">Still, the myth of the ignorant Neanderthal is so pervasive that headlines often lead with it. “<a href="https://www.theguardian.com/science/2014/apr/30/neanderthals-not-less-intelligent-humans-scientists">Neanderthals were not less intelligent than modern humans, scientists find</a>” reads a Guardian headline. Or, from HowStuffWorks:&nbsp; “<a href="https://science.howstuffworks.com/life/evolution/worlds-oldest-sample-string-was-made-by-neanderthals.htm">More Proof Neanderthals Weren&#8217;t Stupid: They Made Their Own String</a>.”&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">The question is: Where did this idea even come from? Why did researchers think Neanderthals were so unintelligent to begin with?&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">“It turns out there&#8217;s a really deep past to that,” says Paige Madison, a science writer who wrote <a href="https://www.jstor.org/stable/45380543">a journal article on this topic</a>, and is writing an upcoming book on human origins. “There’s a reason why we tend to think of Neanderthals as these kind of brutish, dumb, lesser Homo sapiens.”&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">We spoke to Madison as part of the latest episode of <em>Unexplainable</em>, Vox’s science podcast, which looks at how difficult it is to really know anything about Neanderthals at all.&nbsp;</p>

<iframe frameBorder="0" height="482" src="https://playlist.megaphone.fm/?p=VMP9331026707" width="100%"></iframe>

<p class="has-text-align-none">What follows is my conversation with Madison, edited for clarity and length.&nbsp;</p>

<h4 class="wp-block-heading has-text-align-none">Byrd Pinkerton </h4>

<p class="has-text-align-none">Don’t leave me in suspense. What is the deep, dark reason that we thought of Neanderthals as dumb?</p>

<h4 class="wp-block-heading has-text-align-none">Paige Madison&nbsp;</h4>

<p class="has-text-align-none">So the first Neanderthal fossils [recognized as such] <a href="https://humanorigins.si.edu/evidence/human-fossils/species/homo-neanderthalensis#:~:text=Neanderthal%201%20was%20the%20first,%2C%20the%20thick%2C%20strong%20bones.">came out of the ground in the 1850s</a>. And you have this confluence of factors that shaped how people were thinking about Neanderthals and even how they were thinking about themselves.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">This was [a time] of colonialism, and you had all of these assumptions about what variation meant amongst humans and what it meant for potentially taking over other cultures and extracting resources from them. There were a lot of assumptions about certain groups of living humans being superior to other groups. Those assumptions made their way into the science of Neanderthals. [They] were just sort of taking [their] worldview on humans and applying it to these fossils in the past.</p>

<h4 class="wp-block-heading has-text-align-none">Byrd Pinkerton&nbsp;</h4>

<p class="has-text-align-none">Is there a specific example that helps explain how the culture of the late 19th century wound up informing how people looked at bones?</p>

<h4 class="wp-block-heading has-text-align-none">Paige Madison&nbsp;</h4>

<p class="has-text-align-none">At the time, you had this new science that was really trying to put living humans into categories and characterize them and understand differences. The form that it really took was the measurement of skulls. <a href="https://penntoday.upenn.edu/news/new-take-on-infamous-Morton-skulls">There were scientists collecting skulls from all over the world and trying to measure these variations</a>. One was the presence of a brow ridge, which is something that varies a little bit with living humans, and there was this idea that [a brow ridge] was more primitive.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">And then the presence of a steep forehead. They thought that this had to do with a region of the brain that was more developed. And so they would generally categorize most Europeans, for example, as having this steep forehead, and they would use this as evidence that these groups were superior.</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">Those differences are minuscule and they are certainly not meaningful in terms of intellect and cognition, but at the time they were seen as incredibly meaningful and a way that you could differentiate these groups.</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">So Neanderthals then come out of the ground and just get slotted into that worldview. They fit in exactly the spot that these European scientists were categorizing as the lower end of human intellect. The more “primitive” end. And it automatically then carried with it the implication that these were creatures that were primitive.</p>

<h4 class="wp-block-heading has-text-align-none">Byrd Pinkerton&nbsp;</h4>

<p class="has-text-align-none">Where did the perception of the hunched Neanderthal come from? Beyond just them being foolish, I feel like I also have this impression of them knuckle-dragging around. Slumping.</p>

<h4 class="wp-block-heading has-text-align-none">Paige Madison</h4>

<p class="has-text-align-none">Yeah! So there’s this story that you will find in textbooks, where basically this one French scientist, Marcellin Boule, <a href="https://humanorigins.si.edu/evidence/human-fossils/fossils/la-chapelle-aux-saints">misinterpreted a Neanderthal skeleton</a>. And as the story goes, he got a hold of one of the first really complete specimens and he took a look at it and decided that these were these hunched-over brutes that were so dumb that they couldn&#8217;t even really stand up straight.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">But I think he kind of applied this brutish conception that had already existed and applied it to their posture. And so of course that is significant. It did partially shape how we think about them. But he certainly did not invent it by any means.</p>

<h4 class="wp-block-heading has-text-align-none">Byrd Pinkerton&nbsp;</h4>

<p class="has-text-align-none">Got it. So a variety of European scientists developed this narrative about Neanderthals as dummies, people who were somehow inferior to other early modern humans. How did we start pushing back on that story?</p>

<h4 class="wp-block-heading has-text-align-none">Paige Madison</h4>

<p class="has-text-align-none">It definitely wasn’t just one thing. Very rarely in the history of science do we ever see big conceptions shifting because of one thing. So just as Boule didn&#8217;t create this image [of the brutish Neanderthal] alone, it wasn’t destroyed by one scientist alone, but instead was more of a confluence of factors that happened all around the same time.</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">One of those was World War II coming to a close and the consequences of the involvement of race science in World War II being really clear. So, for a historian, it doesn&#8217;t seem to be a coincidence that you see people starting to push back on this dumb, brutish, primitive conception [of Neanderthals] right around the time that people are also pushing back on the racial conceptions of living humans.</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">Another thing was, scientists actually got back into the museum in Paris, where the skeleton that Marcellin Boule looked at was housed … and they took a second look. They noticed that this was an elderly individual, and it was very clear that there were signs of arthritis on the bones.&nbsp;</p>

<h4 class="wp-block-heading has-text-align-none">Byrd Pinkerton </h4>

<p class="has-text-align-none">So basically it was like if people 10,000 years in the future took like one super arthritic old man and were like, “Yep, every person in the 2000s was just like this 72-year-old.”&nbsp;</p>

<h4 class="wp-block-heading has-text-align-none">Paige Madison</h4>

<p class="has-text-align-none">Exactly. And it&#8217;s worth mentioning, too, that the signs of arthritis on the skeleton are well recognized and Boule probably should have been able to recognize them. So it kind of goes to show how our expectations can lead us towards a certain conclusion and kind of push us in that direction even when the evidence isn&#8217;t quite there.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">That’s why you see these interpretations change over time — because there&#8217;s so much else that&#8217;s going into the interpretation. It&#8217;s not as simple as looking at the bones and immediately knowing exactly what they mean. That is being filtered through tons of other information, both scientific and cultural. You know, we just can&#8217;t turn off that lens at any given moment.</p>

<h4 class="wp-block-heading has-text-align-none">Byrd Pinkerton </h4>

<p class="has-text-align-none">So&#8230; it’s kind of like Boule’s ideas in his time were easily accepted because they made sense in the cultural context that they were a part of, but later, they were rejected, in part because of evidence and also in part maybe because the narrative had shifted. People were questioning race science anyway. They were starting to question race science applied to Neanderthals. And so suddenly it&#8217;s almost like it opened up space to also question this image that Boule had [of Neanderthals]?</p>

<h4 class="wp-block-heading has-text-align-none">Paige Madison</h4>

<p class="has-text-align-none">Exactly. Suddenly the earlier ideas about Neanderthals just didn’t make as much sense.</p>

<h4 class="wp-block-heading has-text-align-none">Byrd Pinkerton </h4>

<p class="has-text-align-none">It sounds like what you&#8217;re saying is that our perception of Neanderthals has always been less about Neanderthals and more about ourselves, or our current cultural moment? Like, if you read what people historically have written about Neanderthals, you learn less about Neanderthals and you just learn more about the scientists and the society that they live in?</p>

<h4 class="wp-block-heading has-text-align-none">Paige Madison</h4>

<p class="has-text-align-none">That’s exactly what I would argue. Some scholars have said that it’s a little bit like holding a mirror up to ourselves, because Neanderthals were so closely related to humans living today.</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">I think what’s interesting about it — and you&#8217;ll hear this from a lot of historians of science — is that it’s much easier to see that in the past, to accuse <em>them</em> of making mistakes given their biases or their cultural or political leanings, but in fact, what most historians and philosophers of science would argue is that that is still going on. It’s just harder to see it in the present.&nbsp;</p>

<h4 class="wp-block-heading has-text-align-none">Byrd Pinkerton</h4>

<p class="has-text-align-none">How do modern scientists guard against this in their attempts to better understand Neanderthals?</p>

<h4 class="wp-block-heading has-text-align-none">Paige Madison</h4>

<p class="has-text-align-none">I think the best thing that most scientists can do at this point is to be very explicit about what their biases could be, what the limitations might be, and really just put all of that out on the table so that we can examine it the best that we can.</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">One really strong way that I see this playing out in the science is [scientists] recognizing that their worldviews are shaping the kinds of questions that they’re asking and the ways they&#8217;re asking those questions.</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">So, for example, if you find artwork in a cave, and you assume that artwork is something that only Homo sapiens have done and that Neanderthals were not capable of it … then you never even ask the question [“could Neanderthals have made this?”]. You just ask “Which Homo sapiens did this and when?”</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">But if you come into a cave and you see that there&#8217;s art in there, you can ask, “Who did this?” in a more open way.</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">That’s something I work with scientists [on] a lot — just thinking about the ways that their starting points, their questions, have already either opened or closed certain possibilities.</p>
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					</entry>
			<entry>
			
			<author>
				<name>Byrd Pinkerton</name>
			</author>
			
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[Why do we love to scare ourselves?]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.vox.com/unexplainable/380512/science-behind-why-fear-is-fun-horror-halloween" />
			<id>https://www.vox.com/?p=380512</id>
			<updated>2024-10-30T08:44:04-04:00</updated>
			<published>2024-10-30T04:00:00-04:00</published>
			<category scheme="https://www.vox.com" term="Podcasts" /><category scheme="https://www.vox.com" term="Science" /><category scheme="https://www.vox.com" term="Science of Everyday Life" /><category scheme="https://www.vox.com" term="Unexplainable" />
							<summary type="html"><![CDATA[It’s spooky season, that time of year when people spend lots of time and money deliberately freaking themselves out. It’s a time for watching scary movies or touring through haunted houses or curling up with a bloodcurdling Stephen King novel. This is, for many people, very fun. But why?&#160; Why do some people (myself not [&#8230;]]]></summary>
			
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<img alt="Low angle view of pumpkin scarecrow Halloween decor outside of townhouse." data-caption="A Jack O&#039;Lantern leers." data-portal-copyright="" data-has-syndication-rights="1" src="https://platform.vox.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/10/GettyImages-1790519572.jpg?quality=90&#038;strip=all&#038;crop=0,0,100,100" />
	<figcaption>
	A Jack O'Lantern leers.	</figcaption>
</figure>
<p class="has-text-align-none">It’s spooky season, that time of year when people spend lots of time and money deliberately freaking themselves out. It’s a time for watching scary movies or touring through haunted houses or curling up with a bloodcurdling Stephen King novel. This is, for many people, very fun.</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">But why?&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">Why do some people (myself not included, if I’m being honest) get such a kick from being scared? What is so fun about fear? You could make an evolutionary case for running away from things that scare us — that is, generally, a good way to stay alive — but why do some people then turn around and run toward fear? What are they getting out of it?</p>
<div class="spotify-embed"><iframe src="https://open.spotify.com/embed/episode/1K26mmg2dcTL7ZEQsUSyMu" width="100%" height="152" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen="" allow="autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; fullscreen; picture-in-picture" loading="lazy"></iframe></div>
<p class="has-text-align-none">It’s a question that Mathias Clasen and Marc Andersen have been puzzling over for several years. They’re the co-directors of the <a href="https://cc.au.dk/en/recreational-fear-lab">Recreational Fear Lab</a> at Aarhus University in Denmark, and along with several colleagues, they’ve been investigating why we seek out fear, and what our penchant for the horrible might teach us about ourselves.</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">“We see it [fear for fun] everywhere,” Clasen says, citing everything from kids enjoying peek-a-boo to teens watching horror movies and adults going on roller coasters. “But at the same time, it&#8217;s sort of scientifically understudied or even ignored. So there was something there that mandated serious scientific study. Plus we were having a hell of a lot of fun doing it.”</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">Clasen and Andersen are quick to stress that they’re not the first people to explore this subject. But they see a lot of questions left to answer and explore. On a recent episode of <em><a href="https://www.vox.com/unexplainable">Unexplainable</a></em>, Vox’s science podcast, they laid out some of the things they’ve learned as they’ve investigated the paradox of fun fear, and what they’d still like to learn.&nbsp;</p>

<iframe frameBorder="0" height="482" src="https://playlist.megaphone.fm/?p=VMP9331026707" width="100%"></iframe>

<h2 class="wp-block-heading has-text-align-none"><strong>The haunted house studies&nbsp;</strong></h2>

<p class="has-text-align-none">When you imagine the perfect scientific setting, you’re probably not picturing an abandoned fish factory in the middle of the woods. You’re also probably not imagining killer clowns or zombies or people waving chainsaws.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">But Clasen and Andersen and their colleagues have run several experiments in exactly this kind of environment — setting up shop at an elaborate haunted house in Denmark called <a href="https://dystopia.dk/">Dystopia</a>.&nbsp;</p>
<img src="https://platform.vox.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/10/IMG_20201009_1816221.jpg?quality=90&#038;strip=all&#038;crop=0,5.5680539932508,100,88.863892013498" alt="Team members with white coats stand in a decorated tent." title="Team members with white coats stand in a decorated tent." data-has-syndication-rights="1" data-caption="A team from the Recreational Fear Lab set up to do their field work in a tent outside the Dystopia haunted house in Denmark. | Courtesy of Mathias Clasen" data-portal-copyright="Courtesy of Mathias Clasen" />
<p class="has-text-align-none">“It’s a ridiculously chaotic context in which to try to do any kind of controlled, systematic, scientific investigation,” Clasen admits. Someone will be trying to mount a camera for an experiment, he says, “and then some clown — a literal clown actor — will come and throw fake blood on us.”</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">“But in a way, this kind of horror house is much more well calibrated to investigate the kind of phenomena that we are really interested in,” Andersen says.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">After all, in a normal lab setting, there’s only so much you can do to scare the bejesus out of people before you start crossing some ethical lines, but if someone shows up at an abandoned fish factory, literally looking to be scared, that is their choice. So this haunted house has helped them glean some pretty key insights into how fear and fun might be connected. </p>

<p class="has-text-align-none"><a href="https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/0956797620972116">In one study, for example</a>, they asked a bunch of participants to fill out a questionnaire before they went through the house. They hooked them up to a heart rate monitor, filmed them during some of the house’s biggest jump scares, and then surveyed them again right after they’d left the house, all to get a sense of both how scared they’d been, but also how much they had enjoyed themselves.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">And they found that the relationship between self-reported fear and self-reported fun in the surveys had a kind of an upside-down U-shape. Essentially, if you’re not very scared at all by a haunted house, it might not be that fun. But if you’re very, very scared, it’s also probably not super enjoyable. You’re looking for a kind of sweet spot between the two extremes.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">“You can think of it as sort of the Goldilocks principle of horror,” Andersen says. “There seems to be sort of a middle way where participants report the highest levels of enjoyment.”&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">This pattern showed up in their heart rate data as well. There, again, the people who enjoyed themselves the most tended to be the people whose hearts were behaving a little differently from their usual, but not enormously so.</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">“It is as if humans dislike being very far from their normal physical state,” Andersen says. “But we seem to like being a little bit out of our comfort zone or a little bit out of our normal state.”&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">Andersen and Clasen saw a similar U-shaped pattern in other research, too. <a href="https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4635443/">Some studies on curiosity,</a> for example, also showed that people were especially curious about things if they expected to be moderately surprised.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">“They are not really curious about things where they know that they are going to be way off,” Andersen says. “They are typically interested in things that lie a little bit outside of their normal knowledge.”&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">Eventually, Clasen and Andersen started to hypothesize that maybe, when people sought out a little fun fear, they might be trying to learn through play — or in other words, trying to teach their bodies how to handle fear.</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">“It’s about learning how your, you know, your body reacts, for instance, when, when you become scared,” Andersen says. “We know from other studies in cognitive science that the brain has a tendency of <a href="https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6596138/">suppressing input</a> that it can predict. If you have tried something several times, then oftentimes that experience feels less intensive. So one of the main hypotheses that we have is that recreational fear exposure allows you to learn about fear and handle it in a sort of more optimal way.”&nbsp;</p>

<h2 class="wp-block-heading has-text-align-none"><strong>When the whole world became scary</strong></h2>

<p class="has-text-align-none">Unfortunately, the Recreational Fear Lab got a great opportunity to explore their hypothesis: the Covid-19 pandemic. During the pandemic, <a href="https://www.forbes.com/sites/scottmendelson/2021/08/08/box-office-as-blockbusters-bomb-horror-films-thrive-in-a-covid-stricken-summer/">horror movies did really well at the box office.</a><em> </em>In April 2020, Penny Sarchet, now the managing editor at New Scientist, <a href="https://x.com/PennySarchet/status/1246436224946122752">tweeted</a> at Clasen: “I&#8217;ve been wondering if people who like apocalyptic/horror movies (which I&#8217;ve always hated!) will be more resilient to the trauma of this pandemic. Will you be looking into this?”</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">“What an intriguing idea, Penny!” Clasen <a href="https://x.com/MathiasClasen/status/1246486375928664065">replied</a>.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">It was so intriguing, in fact, that Clasen and some colleagues wound up <a href="https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7492010/">running a study to investigate</a> whether people who watched a lot of scary movies exhibited fewer symptoms of psychological distress in those early, scary days of lockdown.</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">They couldn’t go into the field (it was, after all, a global pandemic), but they distributed questionnaires to get a sense of peoples’ personalities, their mental distress symptoms, and their movie preferences and tastes. They found that “fans of horror films exhibited greater resilience during the pandemic and that fans of ‘prepper”’ genres like alien-invasion, apocalyptic, and zombie films exhibited both greater resilience and preparedness.”</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">These are, of course, self-reported results. And as Clasen told me, this finding is correlational, meaning that they can’t say one thing caused another.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">“We can&#8217;t say, based on this study, that watching a scary movie makes you better at keeping your stress levels down during a pandemic,” he says.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">Maybe the kind of person who likes scary movies is just less likely to get stressed out in the first place.&nbsp;</p>

<h2 class="wp-block-heading has-text-align-none"><strong>How can we harness our fear?</strong></h2>

<p class="has-text-align-none">Clasen and Andersen are excited to continue exploring this question. Andersen says they want to do a longitudinal study with randomized control groups to see if exposing people to some kind of recreational fear brings their stress levels down over time. They also want to see if this hypothesis could be applied to help kids who’ve gotten treatment for anxiety disorders.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">“We would like to sort of enroll them — if they would like — in sort of a bravery module,” he says, though he stresses that the terminology there might change. Essentially, it would involve “inviting them to the roller coaster theme park, having them enroll in a climbing course, maybe seeing some scary movies.”&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">The goal is not to freak some anxious kids out, but to create an environment in which they may have a little bit of fun with their fear. He wants to know if that would actually help these kids learn how to deal with anxiety better. Essentially: Could we fight fear with fear?</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">Whatever they learn, they’ve demonstrated that our obsession with horror is about more than some cheap thrills. There’s something fascinating and mysterious at its heart.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">“It seems to be the case that stories and fiction are vital instruments for navigating the world for humans,” Clasen says. “Imagination might be our coolest asset. We can use our uniquely evolved imaginations to run through scenarios, to imagine different states of affairs, and to prepare.” </p>
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					</entry>
			<entry>
			
			<author>
				<name>Byrd Pinkerton</name>
			</author>
			
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[Hidden from history: Archivists reveal the lives of famous, and not-so-famous, women]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.vox.com/the-highlight/358188/hidden-from-history-archivists-reveal-the-lives-of-famous-and-not-so-famous-women" />
			<id>https://www.vox.com/358188/hidden-from-history-archivists-reveal-the-lives-of-famous-and-not-so-famous-women</id>
			<updated>2024-07-17T12:40:19-04:00</updated>
			<published>2024-07-01T10:39:23-04:00</published>
			<category scheme="https://www.vox.com" term="The Highlight" />
							<summary type="html"><![CDATA[Welcome to&#160;The Highlight Podcast. Every month, a Vox journalist calls someone up — someone we think needs to be highlighted because of the cool, weird, or important work they’re doing. In 1786, Abigail Adams received a very gossipy letter from her sister. The former first lady of the United States is known for a lot [&#8230;]]]></summary>
			
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<figure>

<img alt="Two framed period paintings, one featuring a portrait of a man and the other a woman." data-caption="Paintings of former US President John Adams, right, and his wife, Abigail Adams, are displayed at the Massachusetts Historical Society in Boston, Massachusetts. | Shiho Fukada/Bloomberg via Getty Images" data-portal-copyright="Shiho Fukada/Bloomberg via Getty Images" data-has-syndication-rights="1" src="https://platform.vox.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/06/gettyimages-479130422.jpg?quality=90&#038;strip=all&#038;crop=0,0,100,100" />
	<figcaption>
	Paintings of former US President John Adams, right, and his wife, Abigail Adams, are displayed at the Massachusetts Historical Society in Boston, Massachusetts. | Shiho Fukada/Bloomberg via Getty Images	</figcaption>
</figure>
<p class="has-text-align-none">Welcome to&nbsp;<em>The Highlight Podcast</em>. Every month, a Vox journalist calls someone up — someone we think needs to be highlighted because of the cool, weird, or important work they’re doing.</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">In 1786, Abigail Adams received a <em>very</em> gossipy letter from her sister.</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">The former first lady of the United States is known for a lot of things, like telling her husband <a href="https://millercenter.org/president/adams/adams-1797-abigail-firstlady#:~:text=Abigail%20Adams%20is%20probably%20best,the%20Ladies%5D%20than%20your%20ancestors.">to consider women when writing the Declaration of Independence</a>, giving him other political advice, and writing letters about <a href="https://www.masshist.org/digitaladams/archive/letter/">the Revolutionary War</a>. But her appreciation for tea spilling was not, it seems, limited to beverage leaves in Boston Harbor. </p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">“We live in an age of discovery,” <a href="https://www.r2studios.org/show/your-most-obedient-humble-servant/episode-5-an-age-of-discovery/">Adams’s sister wrote</a> to her, “One of our acquaintances discovered that a full grown child may be produced in less than five months!”</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">She goes on to explain that the husband of the new mother in question was out of town nine months earlier … suggesting this baby is not, in fact, a miracle of the age of discovery but instead the product of infidelity.&nbsp;&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">These are the kinds of letters that Kathryn Gehred, a women’s historian and media editor for the <a href="https://virginiahumanities.org/">Virginia Humanities</a>, likes to feature on her podcast, <a href="https://www.r2studios.org/show/your-most-obedient-humble-servant/"><em>Your Most Obedient &amp; Humble Servant</em></a>. Each episode, Gehred and a guest dig into an 18th- or 19th-century letter written by a woman. They read the letter in its entirety and discuss the context surrounding it, an exercise that usually reveals a&nbsp;different type of history than the big sweeping narratives explored in biographies of “great men.”&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">Every month on <em>The Highlight</em>, Vox’s members-only podcast, a Vox reporter speaks with someone whose work they want to highlight. Gehred’s podcast inspired <em>me</em> to start transcribing letters — so much so that I wound up transcribing several hundred letters between President James Garfield and his family for the <a href="https://crowd.loc.gov/">Library of Congress’s By The People project</a>. This month, I spoke to her about her work, what I learned from it, and what close-reading everyday letters has taught her about the past. </p>

<iframe loading="lazy" frameborder="0" height="200" src="https://playlist.megaphone.fm/?e=VMP8203881920" width="100%"></iframe>

<p class="has-text-align-none">You can also add a private RSS feed in Apple Podcasts by taking the following actions:</p>

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<li>Open the Podcasts app</li>



<li>Tap Library</li>



<li>Tap Edit (three dots) in the upper right corner, and then tap “Follow a Show by URL”</li>



<li>Enter your RSS feed URL</li>



<li>Tap Follow</li>



<li>The podcast will populate under the Listen Now and Library tabs</li>
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<p class="has-text-align-none">What follows is a partial transcript of our conversation, edited for clarity and length. For a longer version of the conversation, check out the podcast. You can listen <strong><a href="https://cms.megaphone.fm/channel/VMP8601503564">here</a></strong>.&nbsp;<br></p>

<h4 class="wp-block-heading has-text-align-none"><strong>Byrd Pinkerton</strong></h4>

<p class="has-text-align-none">You said something in an early episode of the show about how a biography will excerpt one or two sentences from a letter, maybe the most important lines relating to a battle or something. And that sacrifices the context, especially about everyday life or the sort of domestic experience that people were going through. I’m curious why you think it’s important also to keep that context in, to focus or highlight the everyday and domestic lives?</p>

<h4 class="wp-block-heading has-text-align-none"><strong>Kathryn Gehred</strong></h4>

<p class="has-text-align-none">Yeah. A lot of that is just something that I personally find interesting as a human and a historian, and also sort of the discipline of women’s history and family history is talking about … the famous quote, “well-behaved women rarely make history?” The whole point of that quote is that they should. A woman who’s just at home living her life, not doing anything that you might think of as relates to a war or relates to politics or public life … she’s still living in a historical moment. And even the daily tasks that she’s doing, how she travels to a place, what she’s cooking, everything that is sort of central to the lived experience of that time … it’s still really important to understand.</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">So I think keeping the entire letter in, even the boring stuff, is really important to have a certain type of understanding of the past. And to me it makes it feel real and vivid and sort of allows you as a reader to put yourself in that moment in time.&nbsp;</p>

<h4 class="wp-block-heading"><strong>Byrd Pinkerton</strong></h4>

<p class="has-text-align-none">What I found kind of fascinating coming to your podcast is how <em>funny</em> it is. Is there a letter that comes to mind that really highlights just how quippy people could be?</p>

<h4 class="wp-block-heading has-text-align-none"><strong>Kathryn Gehred</strong></h4>

<p class="has-text-align-none">This is something that I think people don’t always realize when they’re thinking about letters!&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">But women and people of earlier time periods, when they’re writing these letters to their family — or to anybody, to friends — they’re trying to make this letter interesting. And that’s part of why people liked reading these letters is because people were actively trying to make them entertaining.</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">And if people were funny, they would really try to be funny. So if you’re imagining somebody writing a letter and sending it to their family to be read around the fireplace, somebody from like a big 10-person family … they’re writing sometimes to tease their siblings and they’ll have like a line in there to make everybody laugh.</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">A correspondent who I think is really great at this is Thomas Jefferson’s granddaughter, Ellen Randolph Coolidge. She is a character. There are a lot of descriptions of Ellen Randolph Coolidge, but nobody can deny that she is a very strong letter writer. And particularly one of her strengths is describing other people, sometimes really in a very sharp, mean way.</p>

<h4 class="wp-block-heading has-text-align-none"><strong>Byrd Pinkerton</strong></h4>

<p class="has-text-align-none">Wait, what does she say?&nbsp;</p>

<h4 class="wp-block-heading has-text-align-none"><strong>Kathryn Gehred</strong></h4>

<p class="has-text-align-none">I’ll just give you one of my favorites. Let’s see.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none"><a href="https://tjrs.monticello.org/letter/1498">“Eliza Woodward the first assistant is extremely valuable to Aunt H she [. . .] possesses good sense and piety and performs her functions as well as they could be performed. But she is uninteresting in manners and conversation — conversation, I should not say, for she seldom speaks but in monosyllables. She is a saint no doubt and saints are the most tiresome people in the world.”</a></p>

<h4 class="wp-block-heading has-text-align-none"><strong>Byrd Pinkerton</strong></h4>

<p class="has-text-align-none">Tell me how you really feel, Ellen!</p>

<h4 class="wp-block-heading has-text-align-none"><strong>Kathryn Gehred</strong></h4>

<p class="has-text-align-none">She does not pull punches. So she is just so fun to read. She just writes very freely. I enjoy reading her letters, and I want to get them out to the world a little bit.&nbsp;</p>

<h4 class="wp-block-heading has-text-align-none"><strong>Byrd Pinkerton</strong></h4>

<p class="has-text-align-none">But I think that that gives you a real sense of how irreverent people could be, too, right? Like, I think people think of people, especially in the 1700s, when there are all these texts being like, “God, and country,” etc. … to have someone being like, “Saints are kind of snoozeville.”</p>

<h4 class="wp-block-heading has-text-align-none"><strong>Kathryn Gehred</strong></h4>

<p class="has-text-align-none">Yes! Saints are the most boring people in the world! It gives you an insight into the time period, right? There’s the “best foot forward” history and then there’s what people are writing in their personal letters.&nbsp;</p>

<h4 class="wp-block-heading has-text-align-none"><strong>Byrd Pinkerton</strong></h4>

<p class="has-text-align-none">In your show, though, you talk a little bit about the kind of risks of relating to some of these people too much. <a href="https://tjrs.monticello.org/letter/1241">There’s a letter from Cornelia Jefferson Randolph</a> that <a href="https://www.r2studios.org/show/your-most-obedient-humble-servant/episode-16-disciplinarians/">you feature</a>.</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">Can you tell me a little bit about that? Who that is about, about the letter and sort of what happens in it?</p>

<h4 class="wp-block-heading has-text-align-none"><strong>Kathryn Gehred</strong></h4>

<p class="has-text-align-none">Sure. One of the most significant letters to me that I found while working on my thesis and one of the reasons I wanted to do the podcast was a letter from one of Thomas Jefferson’s granddaughters. Cornelia Jefferson Randolph is writing to her sister, Virginia Randolph Trist.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">So Thomas Jefferson passed away in 1826. He died super in debt, so his daughter and some of his granddaughters were very financially strapped, and they had to leave the house that they had all grown up in and live in a much smaller house. It’s in … I don’t think it’s quite called Washington, DC, yet, but in Washington, DC. And Cornelia is writing, and it’s just your usual sort of fun letter with updates, and Cornelia is a particularly funny writer, so I usually really enjoy her letters. So she starts sort of talking about family and health and all of that and then she has the line, “You will laugh to hear what disciplinarians we have turned out to be.”</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">And she ends up describing her and her mother and another free Black woman named Melinda holding an enslaved woman named Sally — it’s not Sally Hemings, it’s an enslaved woman named Sally — but holding her down and whipping her. She says that they had hired a constable to whip her previously, but she continues to misbehave, and so they do it literally themselves.</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">So she holds the woman down, and her mother, Martha Jefferson Randolph, who I had just written my entire thesis about, physically whips this woman. And she spins it as something just like a ha ha, fun little anecdote.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">And it really sort of woke me up to the time period I’m working with and the backdrop to some of these stories, which can seem so funny and lighthearted, [but] they’re built on a society that is run on slavery. There are enslaved people in the background of all of these stories.</p>

<h4 class="wp-block-heading has-text-align-none"><strong>Byrd Pinkerton</strong></h4>

<p class="has-text-align-none">Did you want to go back and rewrite your whole thesis? Did it cause you to question what you had written about her?</p>

<h4 class="wp-block-heading has-text-align-none"><strong>Kathryn Gehred</strong></h4>

<p class="has-text-align-none">Honestly, it made me reevaluate my entire approach to history and I did actually go back and rewrite basically the entire thesis, which is part of why my thesis is so bad.</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">I think this happens in all history. There’s people who have the idea of history as sort of the history of great men. They’re writing history as almost a form of propaganda, as a way of getting you proud and excited and relating to these sort of heroic figures.</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">And I realized that I had been writing my thesis on Thomas Jefferson’s granddaughter and relating to her and sort of finding the things in her letters that I thought were good and pulling those out and ignoring the stuff that was problematic. Or even, you know, empathizing with her. It’s like seeing her as an extension of myself.</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">And this is going to be really boring to people who study race in America. This is what they talk about all day, every day. But it sort of surprised me of how dramatically it shifted the way that I was looking at history. And if you stop picking historical figures to sort of think of as extensions of yourself, then everything changes, and it makes the past much more clear, and it allows you to engage in history better. So that was huge for me.</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">So the letter you mentioned, the Cornelia Randolph letter, is one of my favorite episodes. I sort of bare my soul a little bit in it, but it’s about the complicity of white women in slavery and perpetuating slavery. And I think that’s really important to look at head on. And some of these letters allow you to do that.</p>

<h4 class="wp-block-heading has-text-align-none"><strong>Byrd Pinkerton</strong></h4>

<p class="has-text-align-none">When you read stuff like this, do you ever worry about the times when letters don’t mention stuff like this? When it’s just two sisters writing back and forth, talking about a dance or whatever?&nbsp; Do you worry that you’re forgetting that this is the context that that dance exists in, that the people you’re reading about are actually enslaving people?</p>

<h4 class="wp-block-heading has-text-align-none"><strong>Kathryn Gehred</strong></h4>

<p class="has-text-align-none">I worry about that all the time. So what I try to do is get letters from a variety of time periods, a variety of perspectives. I use, if I can, letters from enslaved people, to counterbalance.</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">I think it’s also important to talk about the full humanity of these people who are enslavers because it allows you to understand how slavery happened and how these types of evils continue to happen to this very day. And it helps you understand that better if you think of them as full human beings who are capable of doing these horrible things, instead of just a caricature of evil that you can sort of absolve yourself from any guilt by thinking of these sort of cartoonishly evil slaveholders who you could never do anything like.</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">That’s part of the reason that I wanted to feature the letter. I think that when you find something like this and you really engage with it and grapple with it head-on, it makes the world and history more clear, and not just propaganda. </p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">Just earlier this week, I was looking for other sources for the podcast, and I found a Virginia girl’s diary from 1782. And I’m like, “Yes, this is exactly the type of stuff I’m looking for!” And I was looking through it and reading it, and it was hilarious, and she’s talking about suitors, and it’s perfect, and it’s so funny, and then I was like, “Hmm, this book … this is a printed volume, even though it’s not talking about anything important … a young woman’s diary that’s not talking about anything significant. How in the world did this get printed, knowing what we know about what sources get printed?”</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">And I looked at the publication date, and it’s 1871.&nbsp; So what had just happened in 1871, that all of a sudden, a white girl going and having fun … how did that suddenly get funding to be published?</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">Well, of course, it is one of the first pushes of rewriting the history of the South to be a <a href="https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2020/06/12/gone-with-wind-is-also-confederate-monument-film-instead-stone/"><em>Gone With the Wind</em></a>, Lost Cause type fantasy. They’re talking about the good old days where these sweet Virginia rich girls were visiting each other’s houses and having fun and living this idyllic life.</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">And that is of course why that got published. It doesn’t talk about slavery, and it’s specifically being published at a time period when that is the new history that they’re trying to do.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">So <em>boy</em> do I not want my podcast to be that. But is it dangerously close to being that from time to time? Yes.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">So that is part of my work. One of the guiding principles of my podcast is “never girlboss a slaveholder.” That’s absolutely not what I want to do with this show.&nbsp;</p>

<h4 class="wp-block-heading has-text-align-none"><strong>Byrd Pinkerton</strong></h4>

<p class="has-text-align-none">You’ve mentioned this already, but you don’t only try to sort of highlight white women’s stories in your show. Can you talk a little bit about what letters and other records we do have?</p>

<h4 class="wp-block-heading has-text-align-none"><strong>Kathryn Gehred</strong></h4>

<p class="has-text-align-none">The surprising part of working for a project like <a href="https://washingtonpapers.org/">the papers of George Washington</a> is … sort of accidentally … they have a lot of references to slavery in them if you’re actually really looking at the documents.</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">So I think sometimes people pretend that there’s fewer documents than there actually are. But like, we have letters from enslaved people writing to Thomas Jefferson or to Dolly Madison that are in these Founders projects because anything that’s even slightly connected to a Founder gets saved and gets archived.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">So if you’re looking for them, you can find a surprising amount of letters from or about or referencing people who are enslaved. There are a lot of smaller projects out there, a lot of digital projects, that are really trying to emphasize more bottom-up histories.</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">There’s this really great resource called <a href="http://enslaved.org">enslaved.org</a>.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">One of the coolest projects that I was able to feature is from <a href="https://www.prizepapers.de/">the Prize Papers</a>. It’s huge, out of the UK and France and Germany. There’s all these universities working on it, but they’re taking letters that were confiscated from ships for like the past 300 years. Just like every letter that was on a ship that would be taken by Great Britain during one of their many, many, many wars. And so that includes letters from poor people, from immigrants, from just about everybody.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none"><a href="https://www.library.dartmouth.edu/digital/digital-collections/occom-circle">The Occom’s papers</a> project has some letters from Indigenous students at a school in New England.</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">So you’ve got to dig, you’ve got to work harder to find them, but they are out there.&nbsp;</p>

<h4 class="wp-block-heading has-text-align-none"><strong>Byrd Pinkerton</strong></h4>

<p class="has-text-align-none">My understanding from at least <a href="https://www.r2studios.org/show/your-most-obedient-humble-servant/episode-4-talk-some-little-about-you/">one of the episodes</a> that you did is that some of those letters … there are challenges of interpretation, for example. Can you talk about the letters that are kind of filtered through white transcribers, for example?&nbsp;</p>

<h4 class="wp-block-heading has-text-align-none"><strong>Kathryn Gehred</strong></h4>

<p class="has-text-align-none">Yeah, one letter in particular is from an enslaved woman, <a href="https://library.duke.edu/rubenstein/scriptorium/campbell/">Hannah Valentine,</a> that she’s writing to her daughter Eliza in 1837. She was barred from learning how to read or write, so to write this letter, she is telling a white overseer what to write for her and to then take and deliver to her daughter, who’s in Richmond.</p>

<h4 class="wp-block-heading has-text-align-none"><strong>Byrd Pinkerton</strong></h4>

<p class="has-text-align-none">Had her daughter been sold?</p>

<h4 class="wp-block-heading has-text-align-none"><strong>Kathryn Gehred</strong></h4>

<p class="has-text-align-none">Her enslaver had become the governor of Virginia. So he had moved to Richmond and he had taken her daughter with him, but she had stayed on the plantation. So Hannah’s basically writing to let her daughter know what’s going on at the plantation and sort of asking her daughter to fill her in on what’s going on in Richmond.</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">But the things that she’s going to tell a white overseer to say are probably not … she’s not writing in an unfiltered way. So you sort of have to read between the lines a little bit to get to what she’s actually trying to say.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">These are the letters where you get people talking about how wonderful and how nice the white enslavers are because she’s speaking to a white person for a letter that she knows is going to be delivered to her enslaver to be given to her daughter. So you can’t say, “See, look how happy enslaved people were! Look at the wonderful things she’s writing about her owners!”&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">If you look at the context of how that letter is written, there’s a lot going on there that explains that. So you can’t just take everything necessarily at face value. As always, you’ve got to look at the context of who’s writing when, what the motivations are, and that’s something that, I think, my format allows me to do in a way that I think is helpful. </p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">And I think that throwing in the towel too early and saying, “This is unknowable,” is also not the best response because that just helps to keep things silent for longer.</p>

<h4 class="wp-block-heading has-text-align-none"><strong>Byrd Pinkerton</strong></h4>

<p class="has-text-align-none">There’s almost a pyramid, I guess, of letters. You have this enormous base of rich literate white men’s writings. And then you have a much smaller section of letters from individual, frequently wealthy white woman, where you still have a lot of the historical context around them. And then there’s an even smaller triangle in that pyramid of Black women, Black men, poor Americans, immigrants of all kinds, Native American writers, et cetera, et cetera.</p>

<h4 class="wp-block-heading has-text-align-none"><strong>Kathryn Gehred</strong></h4>

<p class="has-text-align-none">Which is funny because if you’re looking population-wise, it’s the exact opposite pyramid. </p>

<h4 class="wp-block-heading has-text-align-none"><strong>Byrd Pinkerton</strong></h4>

<p class="has-text-align-none">But how do you, how do historians, counteract that? That imbalance? The fact that the record is heavily weighted in favor of the letters of these very rich white people?</p>

<h4 class="wp-block-heading has-text-align-none"><strong>Kathryn Gehred</strong></h4>

<p class="has-text-align-none">It’s hard, but I feel like, responsibly, historically, that’s what you’ve got to do. And I think that one of the best ways to do it is to read these documents with that in mind, knowing whose perspectives are there and whose are being left out, asking those questions, and also with the vast swath of letters that you have, taking what you can find out about poor people, about enslaved people, Indigenous people, what you can tease out from those letters is really valuable.</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">And also looking at different types of sources. My podcast, it’s mostly letters that are your sort of classic one correspondent writing to another correspondent. But if you start looking at things like receipts, like maps and land grants and wills and deeds and legal documents and things like that … that is a lot of the time where you get some of this juicy information to pull that historians use. <a href="https://www.r2studios.org/show/your-most-obedient-humble-servant/Episode-49-Deposition-of-Phillis-Tatton/">And you’ve got to use creative and oftentimes not published sources</a>.</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">The things that have been prioritized to be published are those sort of nice, straightforward letters from one rich white guy to another rich white guy. And not only are they easier to find, but they’ve already been published and edited to you in a beautiful, readable way that some of these other ones have not been. So you’ve just got to find some of those other sources where you can.&nbsp;</p>

<h4 class="wp-block-heading has-text-align-none"><strong>Byrd Pinkerton</strong></h4>

<p class="has-text-align-none">What do you hope that people take away from your podcast?</p>

<h4 class="wp-block-heading has-text-align-none"><strong>Kathryn Gehred</strong></h4>

<p class="has-text-align-none">I feel like my podcast will have succeeded if I get people to think a little bit more about the sources that history comes from. Because I think a lot of times, there’s like fun fact history on the internet. And it’s like, how do we know? Where did you find this information? Where is this coming from? What are you trying to do by talking about this history? And I think that digging into the sources — the primary sources — is the best way to figure out what’s happening. And looking at the entire source yourself is the best way to analyze that. You don’t just have to take history through these historians as the arbiter of telling you what’s really going on. Not to sound like a conspiracy theorist. But the whole point of history is you’ve got to look at the sources.</p>
						]]>
									</content>
			
					</entry>
			<entry>
			
			<author>
				<name>Benji Jones</name>
			</author>
			
			<author>
				<name>Byrd Pinkerton</name>
			</author>
			
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[What’s a wild bat worth to you? This economist is asking.]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.vox.com/down-to-earth/355751/economist-price-nature-unexplainable" />
			<id>https://www.vox.com/?p=355751</id>
			<updated>2024-06-20T11:29:26-04:00</updated>
			<published>2024-06-19T07:00:00-04:00</published>
			<category scheme="https://www.vox.com" term="Climate" /><category scheme="https://www.vox.com" term="Down to Earth" /><category scheme="https://www.vox.com" term="Podcasts" /><category scheme="https://www.vox.com" term="Unexplainable" />
							<summary type="html"><![CDATA[Bats, the world’s only flying mammals, spend much of their lives eating. In North America, most of them chow down on insects —&#160;things like mosquitos, moths, and leafhoppers. They can catch as many as 1,000 bugs in a single hour.&#160; We benefit from bats’ dietary preferences. Beyond limiting the number of disease-carrying, skin-irritating mosquitoes, bats [&#8230;]]]></summary>
			
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<figure>

<img alt="" data-caption="" data-portal-copyright="" data-has-syndication-rights="1" src="https://platform.vox.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/06/05_BenjiBats.jpg?quality=90&#038;strip=all&#038;crop=0,0,100,100" />
	<figcaption>
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<p class="has-text-align-none">Bats, the world’s <a href="https://www.vox.com/down-to-earth/24048465/bats-endangered-climate-change" data-type="link" data-id="https://www.vox.com/down-to-earth/24048465/bats-endangered-climate-change">only flying mammals</a>, spend much of their lives eating. In North America, most of them chow down on insects —&nbsp;things like mosquitos, moths, and leafhoppers. They can catch as many as <a href="https://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/fseprd476773.pdf">1,000 bugs</a> in a single hour.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">We benefit from bats’ dietary preferences. Beyond limiting the number of disease-carrying, skin-irritating mosquitoes, bats eat the insect pests that damage our crops, such as corn earworms. They voluntarily provide pest-control services for farmers across the country.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">What is that service worth?&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">That’s a question that people like Amy Ando seek to answer.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">One of the nation’s few environmental economists, Ando, a professor at The Ohio State University, tries to put a price tag on animals and ecosystems to make sure they’re adequately valued in our modern economy. Protecting nature&nbsp;from the many threats it faces, such as <a href="https://www.vox.com/down-to-earth/23904829/amazon-rainforest-deforestation-tipping-point" data-type="link" data-id="https://www.vox.com/down-to-earth/23904829/amazon-rainforest-deforestation-tipping-point">deforestation</a> and <a href="https://www.vox.com/climate/24137250/coral-reefs-bleaching-climate-change" data-type="link" data-id="https://www.vox.com/climate/24137250/coral-reefs-bleaching-climate-change">climate change</a>, can be expensive. Ando’s goal is to make sure the benefits of those protections are not overlooked.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">In a <a href="https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/full/10.1086/720303">paper</a> of hers, published in 2022, she and Dale Manning, another researcher, estimated the financial losses to farmers of a wildlife disease called <a href="https://www.usgs.gov/faqs/what-white-nose-syndrome">white-nose syndrome</a> that has been wiping out bats across the US. By detailing the extent of those losses&nbsp;in dollars, the authors make a strong case for spending money on protecting bats against the disease.</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">Vox reporters Benji Jones and Byrd Pinkerton spoke with Ando for an episode of <em><a href="https://www.vox.com/unexplainable">Unexplainable</a>. </em>The episode is part of a special series about economic mysteries.</p>

<iframe loading="lazy" frameborder="0" height="200" src="https://playlist.megaphone.fm/?e=VMP5289054375" width="100%"></iframe>

<p class="has-text-align-none">A portion of their conversation, edited for clarity, is included below.&nbsp;</p>

<h4 class="wp-block-heading has-text-align-none">Benji Jones</h4>

<p class="has-text-align-none">First of all, what is an environmental economist?&nbsp;</p>

<h4 class="wp-block-heading has-text-align-none">Amy Ando</h4>

<p class="has-text-align-none">A lot of people think that those two words are opposites,&nbsp;that environment and economics are opposites because economic activity is often the thing that damages the environment.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">Environmental economists do a couple of things that are really important for environmental protection. We do policy design; we try to understand how environmental policies will affect human behavior, which is what causes environmental problems. We also do what we call non-market valuation. Government decisions involve trading off benefits and costs, which are measured in dollars. So when you&#8217;re saying there is going to be a cost to protecting the environment, what are the benefits to go alongside that? We try to measure those.</p>

<h4 class="wp-block-heading has-text-align-none">Benji Jones</h4>

<p class="has-text-align-none">So if, say, a city wants to build a park, someone like you could come in and say something like: “While yes this park would be expensive, its green space would also provide X amount of value to the city’s citizens”?&nbsp;</p>

<h4 class="wp-block-heading has-text-align-none">Amy Ando</h4>

<p class="has-text-align-none">That&#8217;s right, and we might express that value in a couple of different ways. We might say that your citizens will be better off and be hypothetically willing to pay $1 billion for that park. We can also say that housing values in your city will go up by 10 percent as a result of this park, and that will increase tax revenues by X amount. And it might actually be that the park pays for itself.&nbsp;</p>

<h4 class="wp-block-heading has-text-align-none">Benji Jones</h4>

<p class="has-text-align-none">Is the core of what you’re doing here putting a number on nature? That seems controversial.&nbsp;</p>

<h4 class="wp-block-heading has-text-align-none">Amy Ando</h4>

<p class="has-text-align-none">Yes. And when we put it that way, it is controversial.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">One of the basic features of economics is that we tend to treat goods as exchangeable. So, for example, I will trade off one unit of bananas for three units of pizza. The challenge is that some things in nature are less exchangeable; some things are irreplaceable. This comes up a lot when we’re talking about biodiversity. There are some human value structures in which this whole approach is abhorrent.&nbsp;</p>
<img src="https://platform.vox.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/06/2023_AmyAndo05-official.jpg?quality=90&#038;strip=all&#038;crop=0,5.3571428571429,100,89.285714285714" alt="" title="" data-has-syndication-rights="1" data-caption="Amy Ando. | The Ohio State University" data-portal-copyright="The Ohio State University" />
<p class="has-text-align-none">However, governments have to make decisions. We make decisions all the time about what regulations we&#8217;re going to put in place and what investments we&#8217;re going to make in conservation. The structures that the United States has for making those decisions tend to use cost-benefit analyses. And if you don&#8217;t have a dollar amount for nature to balance against the dollar amount of the cost, then it&#8217;s hard to think that you&#8217;re really doing a thorough job of the analysis.</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">We can&#8217;t just wave our hands and say, “Oh, well, nature. It&#8217;s important.” Some people really need to hear the dollar values.&nbsp;</p>

<h4 class="wp-block-heading has-text-align-none">Benji Jones</h4>

<p class="has-text-align-none">One example comes from a paper you published in 2022 about the cost of losing bats. What did you learn?&nbsp;</p>

<h4 class="wp-block-heading has-text-align-none">Amy Ando</h4>

<p class="has-text-align-none">Around 2006, some bat colonies in caves started developing a fungal disease called white-nose syndrome. It was very scary. In some parts of the country, bat populations have really been decimated.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">The people who study bats and love them most are sad about this, but we also worry because bats play important roles in nature and for people — because they&#8217;re out there eating our pests. They eat bugs that eat crops.</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">Now, there are things we can do to help bats not get sick, but they’re expensive. They involve people trudging through bat caves full of guano [bat poop]. They come at a cost, both in dollar value and human labor. So are these efforts worth doing? If you’re the government, is this an investment that’s worth making?&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">Our job was to try to quantify, in ways that matter to the government and the public, the benefit that bats are having [to know if the cost of helping them outweighs the cost of not].&nbsp;</p>

<h4 class="wp-block-heading has-text-align-none">Benji Jones</h4>

<p class="has-text-align-none">How do you figure this out? How do you put a price on a bat?&nbsp;</p>

<h4 class="wp-block-heading has-text-align-none">Amy Ando</h4>

<p class="has-text-align-none">We didn’t put a price on a bat but on its work.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">Nature has intrinsic [inherent] value, but it also has practical value to people. We call that value ecosystem services. The ecosystem service of bats, the job that we put a dollar value on, is pest control, which is a substitute for pesticide use.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">We couldn’t ask the bats how many bugs they ate. Instead, we had to ask ourselves how bat pest control services manifested in markets —&nbsp;specifically, the market for farmland.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">If you&#8217;re a farmer thinking about how much land to rent, you’re going to want to know how profitable that land is going to be. What’s the price of crops? What’s the price of my inputs? That includes how much they’re likely to spend on pesticides. All of that goes into the calculation of farmland profitability and the demand for farmland.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">When there are not a lot of bats and farmers are having to spend a lot of money on pesticides, farming is less profitable. They&#8217;re going to lease fewer acres. And that will cause the price of farmland to go down. We’re also going to see fewer acres being farmed.&nbsp;</p>

<h4 class="wp-block-heading has-text-align-none">Benji Jones</h4>

<p class="has-text-align-none">So farmland should be more expensive if there are more bats in the area because you’ll spend less on pesticides?&nbsp;&nbsp;</p>

<h4 class="wp-block-heading has-text-align-none">Amy Ando</h4>

<p class="has-text-align-none">Exactly. We used USDA data on acres farmed by county and the average cropland rental rates. We also needed data about what’s up with the bats. We used data that showed which counties had white-nose syndrome in each year. So we were able to track over time the spread of white-nose syndrome to see what impact that had on acres planted and the rental price of farmland.</p>

<h4 class="wp-block-heading has-text-align-none">Benji Jones</h4>

<p class="has-text-align-none">What did you find?&nbsp;</p>

<h4 class="wp-block-heading has-text-align-none">Amy Ando</h4>

<p class="has-text-align-none">We found that losing bats in a county caused land prices, land rental rates, to fall by almost $3 an acre. There were also spillover effects. Prices didn’t just fall in the county that had white-nose syndrome. The neighboring counties also experienced some effects, which makes sense because bats fly.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">That ends up being a lot of money. The bottom line is that the cost to [US] society of white-nose syndrome, in total, was between $420 and $500 million a year. That’s a pretty conservative number, and it’s very large.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">If farmers are having to substitute free pest control with an input-based pest control [i.e., pesticides], that means that farming is more expensive, and that will tend to drive up the cost of the product.&nbsp;</p>

<h4 class="wp-block-heading has-text-align-none">Benji Jones</h4>

<p class="has-text-align-none">What do numbers like this miss?&nbsp;</p>

<h4 class="wp-block-heading has-text-align-none">Amy Ando</h4>

<p class="has-text-align-none">Every economic study can only capture one thing. Here we captured the value of one “use value,” as we call it, for bats. Use values are things like pest control, pollination, flood control, nutrient cycle, food —&nbsp;practical things.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">People also have “non-use values” for animals —&nbsp;intrinsic values, spiritual values. Bats are cool. Bats are cute. Bats are really interesting. Non-use values are the intangibles. This is especially relevant for animals that people don&#8217;t interact with at all, such as species that are far away like whales. Most people don&#8217;t benefit very directly from whales, but they&#8217;re super cool. That’s why we see people donating money to funds to save species that they will never interact with on an individual basis.</p>

<h4 class="wp-block-heading has-text-align-none">Benji Jones</h4>

<p class="has-text-align-none">How do you study the non-use value of animals, given that it’s so intangible?&nbsp;</p>

<h4 class="wp-block-heading has-text-align-none">Amy Ando</h4>

<p class="has-text-align-none">Estimating non-use values is harder because you can&#8217;t just look at market data. We have to use surveys.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">One approach is to estimate people&#8217;s “willingness to pay” for nature. It’s a way to capture the value that somebody has for a thing. That is relatively conservative because it’s a budget-constrained concept. You cannot be willing to pay more money than you have.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">A different concept is “willingness to accept.” I live in a world that has polar bears. I live in a world that has the monarch butterfly. What would you have to pay me to make me whole — to compensate me — if either of those species were to go extinct?&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">Estimates for willingness to accept can be very large, especially if you’re talking about things that are sacred, although some cultures view putting dollar values on nature to be just unacceptable.</p>

<h4 class="wp-block-heading has-text-align-none">Benji Jones</h4>

<p class="has-text-align-none">You did a study looking at the non-use value of grasslands. Can you tell us about that?&nbsp;</p>

<h4 class="wp-block-heading has-text-align-none">Amy Ando</h4>

<p class="has-text-align-none">This was in Illinois and we were asking people about tallgrass prairie restoration. Tallgrass prairie is beautiful. It&#8217;s full of wildflowers. And there&#8217;s not a lot of it. So we were surveying people and asking them about their willingness to pay for restoring a grassland near them.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">We found that people were willing to pay more for grasslands if they had a great variety of birds. They were also willing to pay more if some of those birds were endangered.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">People expressing genuine willingness to pay for things makes me happy when I think about civic government and the future of the world.</p>

<h4 class="wp-block-heading has-text-align-none">Benji Jones</h4>

<p class="has-text-align-none">I understand how this information is useful. At the same time, it&#8217;s tough to think about the wonder of nature —&nbsp;something so intangible —&nbsp;put into dollars and cents. I worry that this approach is degrading. How do you grapple with the ethics of it?&nbsp;</p>

<h4 class="wp-block-heading has-text-align-none">Amy Ando</h4>

<p class="has-text-align-none">Estimating dollar values is critically important for protecting nature when government policies require cost-benefit analyses. If you don&#8217;t have a dollar value, then those values don&#8217;t get counted. We always try to be clear that this is the estimate of one value.</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">There are other ways to make decisions. You won&#8217;t find an environmental economist saying, “No, we should never make decisions unless there&#8217;s a cost-benefit analysis.” Countries can just decide that protecting something is non-negotiable.</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">A couple of years ago, I worked with a whole team of ecologists on a paper estimating the [financial] benefits to the world of preventing the next pandemic by doing things to protect forests and species. Forest conservation makes it less likely that we&#8217;re going to have a crossover of zoonotic diseases from species to people.</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">It&#8217;s a huge amount of money. And that speaks to governments, and it helps convince people to do something. You can convince some people with moral stories. Other people need to see the dollar values.&nbsp;</p>
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