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	<title type="text">Jolie Myers | Vox</title>
	<subtitle type="text">Our world has too much noise and too little context. Vox helps you understand what matters.</subtitle>

	<updated>2026-04-02T18:52:09+00:00</updated>

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		<entry>
			
			<author>
				<name>Jolie Myers</name>
			</author>
			
			<author>
				<name>Noel King</name>
			</author>
			
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[Why Trump betrayed MAGA, according to Tucker Carlson]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.vox.com/podcasts/484709/iran-war-tucker-carlson-donald-trump-america-first" />
			<id>https://www.vox.com/?p=484709</id>
			<updated>2026-04-02T14:52:09-04:00</updated>
			<published>2026-04-02T14:55:00-04:00</published>
			<category scheme="https://www.vox.com" term="Donald Trump" /><category scheme="https://www.vox.com" term="Iran" /><category scheme="https://www.vox.com" term="Israel" /><category scheme="https://www.vox.com" term="Podcasts" /><category scheme="https://www.vox.com" term="Politics" /><category scheme="https://www.vox.com" term="Today, Explained podcast" /><category scheme="https://www.vox.com" term="Trump Administration" /><category scheme="https://www.vox.com" term="World Politics" />
							<summary type="html"><![CDATA[After five weeks of muddled messaging, President Donald Trump finally addressed the nation on Wednesday night to make the case for his war on Iran. That message was…still muddled. He did not articulate a clear exit plan from the conflict, fobbed the Strait of Hormuz problem off on other countries, and denied that regime change [&#8230;]]]></summary>
			
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<img alt="Tucker Carlson, wearing a suit and tie, is seen between two figures out of focus in the foreground." data-caption="Tucker Carlson attends a meeting in the East Room of the White House on January 9, 2026. | Al Drago/Getty Images" data-portal-copyright="Al Drago/Getty Images" data-has-syndication-rights="1" src="https://platform.vox.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2026/04/gettyimages-2259365451.jpg?quality=90&#038;strip=all&#038;crop=0,0,100,100" />
	<figcaption>
	Tucker Carlson attends a meeting in the East Room of the White House on January 9, 2026. | Al Drago/Getty Images	</figcaption>
</figure>
<p class="has-text-align-none">After five weeks of muddled messaging, President Donald Trump finally <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OzhLRPZfOMQ">addressed the nation</a> on Wednesday night to <a href="https://www.vox.com/politics/484675/trump-iran-speech-war-strait-hormuz">make the case for his war on Iran</a>. That message was…still muddled. He did not articulate a clear exit plan from the conflict, fobbed the Strait of Hormuz problem off on other countries, and denied that regime change was the point. </p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">Among those making a clear case <em>against </em>the war is longtime Trump ally and former Fox News host Tucker Carlson, who now hosts a mega-popular podcast, <em>The Tucker Carlson Show</em>.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">In an interview with <em>Today, Explained</em>, Carlson told Vox’s Noel King that the war “doesn&#8217;t serve American interests in any conceivable way. And let me just say that if it does in some way serve the interests of the United States, I&#8217;d love to hear it.”&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">Carlson told Noel that he brought his argument directly to Trump, to no avail. “I went to see the president three times in the month before this in person, and made the case,” he said. “And in the end it had no effect. So I tried. But I haven&#8217;t been in touch with the president since then.”</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">In addition to the war, Carlson and Noel discussed <a href="https://www.vox.com/politics/466905/the-gops-top-think-tank-just-defended-an-open-nazi">the conservative moment&#8217;s Nazi problem</a> — and how much blame he bears for it. Plus, whether he’s considering a presidential run, and why MAGA voters support the war.</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">Below is an excerpt of their conversation, edited for length and clarity. There’s much more in the full podcast, so listen to <em>Today, Explained</em> wherever you get podcasts, including <a href="https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/today-explained/id1346207297">Apple Podcasts</a>, <a href="https://www.pandora.com/podcast/today-explained/PC:140">Pandora</a>, and <a href="https://open.spotify.com/show/3pXx5SXzXwJxnf4A5pWN2A">Spotify</a>.</p>

<iframe frameborder="0" height="200" src="https://playlist.megaphone.fm/?e=VMP8092652848" width="100%"></iframe>

<p class="has-text-align-none"><strong>You don&#8217;t think that the US should be at war with Iran. Why not?</strong></p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">I haven&#8217;t heard a consistent case from anyone, and I would say it&#8217;s not just the Trump administration. My strong sense, having watched it closely, is that there was not a groundswell of support for this war from within the Trump administration. The president made the decision to do it, but he wasn&#8217;t surrounded by advisers who were urging him to do it. Just the opposite. I don&#8217;t think there was any enthusiasm for it.</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none"><strong>So why are we in this war?</strong></p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">He did it, as the secretary of state explained, because we were pushed into it by the Netanyahu government, by Benjamin Netanyahu. Now, to be totally clear, that&#8217;s not a way of exculpating the president. He&#8217;s the commander in chief of the US military. Trump made the decision; it was the wrong decision. </p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">But if you&#8217;re asking why did he make that decision, it&#8217;s because he was pushed into it by Benjamin Netanyahu, which raises the second obvious question: Where did Netanyahu get the power as the prime minister of a country of 9 million to force the president of a country of 350 million to do his bidding? </p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">I can&#8217;t answer that question, but I can tell you what happened because the secretary of state said it and the speaker of the House said it, and I watched it. And what happened was the Israelis went to the White House and said, <em>We are going to do this. We&#8217;re going to move against Iran</em>. </p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">At that point, the US had really only two choices. One is to follow and the other is to tell Israel no and force them not to do it, because as Marco Rubio explained on camera, if you allowed Israel to go alone, you were certain that American forces and citizens and interests in the Gulf would be destroyed.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">But either way, Benjamin Netanyahu made the decision on the timing of this. That&#8217;s another way of saying he was in charge. And I&#8217;m just here to say I think it&#8217;s wrong, and I think the majority of Americans think it&#8217;s wrong.</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none"><strong>President Trump has been talking about Iran since the late 1980s. A </strong><a href="https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jan/12/polly-toynbee-1988-interview-donald-trump"><strong>Guardian interview</strong></a><strong> recently resurfaced from 1988, and he&#8217;s asked, “If you were a politician, what would your platform be?” He says, “I’d be harsh on Iran. They’ve been beating us psychologically, making us look a bunch of fools. One bullet shot at one of our men or ships and I’d do a number on Kharg Island.” </strong></p>

<p class="has-text-align-none"><strong>This sounds a lot like the way he&#8217;s talking [now] about doing a number on Kharg Island. You&#8217;re aware of that. Donald Trump is the president of the United States. Can&#8217;t this war just be what he wants?</strong></p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">I&#8217;m not denying him agency. I stated his agency, which is a matter of fact, not opinion. He&#8217;s the commander in chief. He gives the orders. Donald Trump made the decision.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">It is also true that Israel forced that decision. That&#8217;s what happened. It&#8217;s not a question of did Donald Trump hate Iran or love Iran and now hates Iran? He&#8217;s been consistent on that.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">The question is whether a regime change war against a country of almost 100 million people on the Persian Gulf was a) achievable, h) a good idea for the United States, and c) a good idea for the world. And Trump has said consistently, <em>No, it’s a terrible idea</em>. He&#8217;s been really specific about it: <em>Regime change war in Iran is a bad idea. So this is the change.</em> It&#8217;s not that he woke up one morning and was mad at Iran. What do you do about it is the question.</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none"><strong>Not long after the US took Nicolás Maduro into custody in Venezuela, you did a monologue and you said that the US, an empire, needs serious men to run it, people who are wise and understand stakes, not flighty, silly, emotionally incontinent people. </strong></p>

<p class="has-text-align-none"><strong>In light of the way that this war was launched, given the lack of coherent messaging as you&#8217;ve described it, the apparent lack of a plan to get out of Iran, do you think we have serious men making wise decisions in the White House?</strong></p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">We&#8217;re not seeing wise decisions, obviously.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">I think Venezuela, I think the war in Ukraine, I think all of these build on each other, but I think that the Venezuela operation set us up for what happened in Iran. It sent the message that you can achieve regime change at almost no cost. And as we&#8217;re learning five weeks in, that&#8217;s not possible in Iran, and the consequences are potentially catastrophic.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">I don&#8217;t think anyone who&#8217;s paying close attention has slept well for the last month. I would love to be able to say, <em>Okay, we made our point and we killed their religious leader.</em> And somehow that&#8217;s virtuous, I guess. And this is victory and we&#8217;re leaving. </p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">As an American, I would like to see that because I want to get out of this with as little damage as possible, but I don&#8217;t see how you can do that without leaving Iran stronger than it was in real terms. They have no navy, they have no air force — okay, but they control 20 percent of the world&#8217;s energy. How does that not make them stronger than they were in February?</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none"><strong>Who are the serious men?</strong></p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">You find out in moments like this. Who can think clearly, who can accept unhappy truths, digest them and make wise decisions on the basis of them or who retreats into fantasy?</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none"><strong>Who are you seeing do that? The former. In the White House. In the administration.</strong></p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">I don&#8217;t know. I went to see the president three times in the month before this in person and made the case — not too different from the case I&#8217;ve just made to you. And in the end it had no effect.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">I haven&#8217;t been in touch with the president since then, and so I don&#8217;t know. But I do think that there are people, I know that there are people in the White House who may disagree with me on all kinds of issues, but they want to do the best for the country. They&#8217;re not crazy. And I&#8217;m sure that they&#8217;re giving, I hope they&#8217;re giving good advice. But the question at this point is how do you get out of this?</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">It&#8217;s not easy. This just happened in 2003. I was there, both in Washington and in Iraq in the aftermath. And it shocks me that we are doing this thing again, particularly under a president who understood exactly what happened in 2003, campaigned all three elections against doing an Iraq War again, because it was stupid. He was the only Republican to campaign against the Iraq War. It&#8217;s why he won the nomination, in my opinion, in 2016.</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">It&#8217;s amazing to me that the president who knew, and said he knew again and again and again that this was wrong, that he just did the same thing.</p>
						]]>
									</content>
			
					</entry>
			<entry>
			
			<author>
				<name>Jolie Myers</name>
			</author>
			
			<author>
				<name>Noel King</name>
			</author>
			
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[You got your democracy back. Now what?]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.vox.com/podcasts/480149/poland-democracy-donald-tusk-illiberal-trilemma" />
			<id>https://www.vox.com/?p=480149</id>
			<updated>2026-02-23T18:40:00-05:00</updated>
			<published>2026-02-24T06:00:00-05:00</published>
			<category scheme="https://www.vox.com" term="Democracy" /><category scheme="https://www.vox.com" term="Podcasts" /><category scheme="https://www.vox.com" term="Politics" /><category scheme="https://www.vox.com" term="Today, Explained podcast" /><category scheme="https://www.vox.com" term="World Politics" />
							<summary type="html"><![CDATA[The thing about elected authoritarians is that they sometimes lose elections. Such was the case in 2023 with Poland’s Law and Justice party.&#160; The ultra-conservative populist party rode a wave of anti-elite sentiment to power in 2015. What happened next was directly out of the authoritarian playbook: They stacked Poland’s constitutional courts with loyalists — [&#8230;]]]></summary>
			
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<img alt="Donald Tusk, wearing a white shirt with a red heart on it, speaks into a microphone; around him are supporters waving Polish flags." data-caption="Donald Tusk speaks during election convention in Katowice, Poland, on October 12, 2023. | Beata Zawrzel/NurPhoto via Getty Images" data-portal-copyright="Beata Zawrzel/NurPhoto via Getty Images" data-has-syndication-rights="1" src="https://platform.vox.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2026/02/gettyimages-1723969218.jpg?quality=90&#038;strip=all&#038;crop=0,0,100,100" />
	<figcaption>
	Donald Tusk speaks during election convention in Katowice, Poland, on October 12, 2023. | Beata Zawrzel/NurPhoto via Getty Images	</figcaption>
</figure>
<p class="has-text-align-none">The thing about elected authoritarians is that they sometimes lose elections. Such was the case in 2023 with Poland’s Law and Justice party.&nbsp;</p>

<div class="wp-block-vox-media-highlight vox-media-highlight">
<h2 class="wp-block-heading">Key takeaways</h2>



<ul class="wp-block-list">
<li>After a period of democratic backsliding, governments that want to restore democratic rule face an “illiberal trilemma”: They seek to unwind authoritarian rule legally, quickly, and effectively — but it’s very difficult to achieve all three.<br></li>



<li>In Poland, efforts to restore liberal democracy has meant choosing between slow, lawful reforms and faster moves that risk bending the rules.<br></li>



<li>The lesson for countries like the US is that once democratic norms are broken, they’re hard to rebuild — and the temptation to stretch those norms doesn’t disappear when power changes hands.</li>
</ul>
</div>

<p class="has-text-align-none">The ultra-conservative populist party rode a wave of anti-elite sentiment to power in 2015. What happened next was directly out of the authoritarian playbook: They <a href="https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/dec/08/polish-mps-pass-supreme-court-bill-criticised-as-grave-threat">stacked Poland’s constitutional courts</a> with loyalists — judges who would rubber stamp laws, even if their constitutionality was questionable. They <a href="https://www.politico.eu/article/poland-government-media-news-agency-law-and-justice-tusk/">took over a largely independent public media</a> and bent it to conservative extremes. They <a href="https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/polish-president-sign-russian-influence-bill-despite-opposition-protests-2023-05-29/">created a commission </a>that would make it easier to block the opposition from serving in government.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">But in 2023, <a href="https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/11/europe/poland-pis-confidence-vote-tusk-intl">Polish voters decided</a> Law and Justice was just too extreme, that a country <a href="https://history.state.gov/milestones/1989-1992/fall-of-communism">intimately familiar with tyrannical rule</a> could not tolerate further erosion of its democracy. Law and Justice won the most votes in the parliamentary election, but it did not have enough allies to form a coalition; the runner-up did. The result was a new ruling coalition of largely establishment parties with classically liberal philosophies — basically, the opposite of Law and Justice.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">It was, at this point, that the new governing coalition had to ask itself: Now what?</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">Voters expected this new government, headed by Prime Minister Donald Tusk, to quickly unwind the damage that Law and Justice had inflicted on Poland’s democracy. Just one problem: It’s extremely hard to toss the work of a previous government via legal, democratic means. That means the reach of an authoritarian era can extend far into the next political age of a country.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">Political scientist and sociologist Ben Stanley has looked closely at this kind of authoritarian hangover in his work. He’s an associate professor at <a href="https://english.swps.pl/benjamin-stanley">SWPS University in Warsaw</a> and recently published a book with Stanley Bill called <a href="https://www.sup.org/books/politics/good-change"><em>Good Change: The Rise and Fall of Poland’s Illiberal Revolution</em></a><em>.</em>&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">Stanley describes the barriers to reform as a “trilemma”: Voters want you to reform quickly, legally, <em>and</em> effectively, but it’s almost always impossible to achieve all three at the same time.</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none"><em>Today, Explained </em>host Noel King spoke to Stanley about his theory and where Poland goes from here.</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none"><strong>Tell me about what you call the “illiberal trilemma.”</strong></p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">Well, this was a problem that my co-author Stanley Bill and I started to think about as we were coming to the end of writing our book: How can countries deal with the consequences of a period of illiberalism, a period of democratic backsliding?&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">And one of the problems that the government has experienced during its two years in power so far is that there are expectations that it will do much to reform what its predecessor implemented: dealing with the rule-of-law problem, dealing with the problem of illegitimately appointed judges, dealing with the consequences of democratic backsliding.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">The problem that a government that comes to power saying that it will respect liberal democracy faces is that if it wants to do things legally, if it wants to do things by the book, this is a slow process. This is a process which can&#8217;t be pushed through in the way that Law and Justice pushed through its own agenda. So, the trilemma essentially is that a government, after a period of illiberal governance, is faced with having to do things legally, with needing to do things quickly, and with needing to do things effectively.&nbsp;</p>

<figure class="wp-block-pullquote"><blockquote><p>“I think the first thing that Poland can teach pretty much anybody who is going to face dealing with the aftermath of an illiberal government is that it&#8217;s not as easy as it might seem at first glance.”</p></blockquote></figure>

<p class="has-text-align-none">The problem is that it can often only choose two of those three things. It can choose either to act in a way which is legal and quick, but it doesn&#8217;t really effectively deal with the problem, because there is only a limited impact of the things that it can do legally and quickly. It can choose to act legally and effectively, but this is a long and drawn out process, because it involves things like overcoming presidential vetoes; it involves you dealing with entrenched elites in institutions that were politicized by the predecessor. Or, it can choose to do things quickly and effectively, but at the price of either bending or breaking the law.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">So, the big question for this government has been: To what extent is the imperative of restoring liberal democracy something that justifies either bending liberal democratic norms and laws or breaking them outright? We have this sort of period of militant democracy where, to restore a broken democracy, we first have to break some of its principles further.</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none"><strong>Give me a concrete example of how you&#8217;ve seen this be a problem.</strong></p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">The most significant example of this has been with respect to the rule of law and, particularly, the appointment of judges.</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">Just to explain what happened: Essentially, under Law and Justice, the body which is responsible for appointing judges, the National Council of the Judiciary, was politicized through changes to the appointment process. Essentially, parliament can now have much more of an impact on who chooses judges and who disciplines judges, which has plenty of consequences for the separation of powers.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">So, when the current government came into power, one of the things that they promised to do was to reform this system, to bring about reforms that would ensure that the system of judicial appointments was not irretrievably politicized. They have to act quickly, because there are illegitimately appointed judges through a politicized process who are ruling on cases, who are having material consequences by sitting as judges.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">The problem, though, is that, while they have to move quickly, they can&#8217;t do so without changing the law as was altered by Law and Justice. So, they need to do this legally, but they can&#8217;t do this legally, because they have had first President [Andrzej] Duda and second President [Karol] Nawrocki, the current incumbent, who are blocking them from making these reforms.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">So, while they need to act effectively, and they need to act legally, they can&#8217;t do that quickly. If they were to try to act in ways which got around this presidential veto, they would be able to do that swiftly and effectively, because they have a parliamentary majority that could push through the required changes. But they wouldn&#8217;t be able to do so legally if they ignored the presidential veto.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">In order to reform the courts, in order to reform the process of judicial appointments, they&#8217;re stuck in this trilemma, because the only things that they can do are either ineffective or slow if they want those things to be legal.</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none"><strong>I understand that a very similar dynamic has played out with the media in Poland. Walk me through what happened with the media, why it&#8217;s been so hard to reform and what the stakes are of that?</strong></p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">The problem starts essentially with public media. And public media in Poland has never been perfect in the sense of being perfectly neutral. It&#8217;s always been seen as an institution that successive governments have tried to leave their stamp on in some way to exert some degree of political influence over.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">But under Law and Justice, this involved a much further going sort of purging of the boards of public media very quickly. It was one of the first things that they did when they came to power in 2015, getting rid of boards of public media and, with that, essentially purging journalists that could be predicted to be negatively oriented towards the Law and Justice government.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">We saw, over the eight years of Law and Justice&#8217;s period in office, that public media became, essentially, a very crude propaganda arm of the executive, simply pushing the government line while actively seeking to disparage and denigrate opposition politicians. So, again, the current government tried to address that almost immediately. Again, one of the first things they did was essentially to use some rather questionable legal methods to remove the board members of public media organizations and replace them with, as they described them, technocrats who were going to bring back pluralism and sort of non-bias in public media.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none"><strong>You&#8217;re aware of what&#8217;s going on in the US right now. You&#8217;re aware that we&#8217;ve elected a profoundly illiberal government with some really worrying characters. If I were to ask you to compare Poland and the United States, what would you say that Poland could teach us — whether it&#8217;s good, bad, ugly, or somewhere in between?</strong></p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">Well, I think the first thing that Poland can teach pretty much anybody who is going to face dealing with the aftermath of an illiberal government is that it&#8217;s not as easy as it might seem at first glance.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">It isn&#8217;t sufficient just to get back into power and expect that you can use the existing institutions to reform things in a liberal direction. One of the problems that has been exposed in Poland, as in the case of the US, is that certain norms have been overturned, things that the expectation was on the part of the political mainstream that people simply wouldn&#8217;t do and simply wouldn&#8217;t say have been done and said. I think that what can be learned from the Polish case is that once those things have been done and said, it&#8217;s very difficult to restore the norms that existed before.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">There is a standing temptation on the part of anyone who gets into power next to act in similar ways. So, I think that the way in which the norms have shifted in Poland, and what people are willing to accept from politicians — or at least what people are willing to not resist and not expect consequences for — has changed quite significantly.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">I think that&#8217;s one of the things that we&#8217;ve faced in the US, as well, where you may have your subsequent Democrat administration who said, “Well, our predecessors did these things and maybe we&#8217;re not going to be acting as egregiously as you people like Stephen Miller are acting.” But, on the other hand, it&#8217;s clear that the public is willing to accept certain actions that we didn&#8217;t think that they would be willing to accept. So, I think that one of the key things that can be learned is that once those norms shift, it affects both sides.</p>
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									</content>
			
					</entry>
			<entry>
			
			<author>
				<name>Jolie Myers</name>
			</author>
			
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[The Brazilian playbook for defending democracy]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.vox.com/podcasts/479405/brazil-bolsonaro-trump-democracy" />
			<id>https://www.vox.com/?p=479405</id>
			<updated>2026-02-23T14:29:11-05:00</updated>
			<published>2026-02-18T06:10:00-05:00</published>
			<category scheme="https://www.vox.com" term="Podcasts" /><category scheme="https://www.vox.com" term="Politics" /><category scheme="https://www.vox.com" term="Today, Explained podcast" />
							<summary type="html"><![CDATA[Brazil’s former president was sentenced to 27 years in prison late last year for plotting a coup. The details may sound familiar: Jair Bolsonaro lost an election. He claimed it was stolen from him and rallied supporters to storm the nation’s capital, Brasilia. The insurrection even took place in early January (2023).&#160; However, the parallels [&#8230;]]]></summary>
			
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<figure>

<img alt="a granite statue of a woman holding a sword while wearing a blindfold sits in front of a government building" data-caption="The &quot;A Justiça&quot; statue, sculpted by Alfredo Ceschiatti, in front of the Supreme Federal Court in Brasília, Brazil. | Ton Molina/Bloomberg via Getty Images" data-portal-copyright="Ton Molina/Bloomberg via Getty Images" data-has-syndication-rights="1" src="https://platform.vox.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2026/02/GettyImages-2228104218.jpg?quality=90&#038;strip=all&#038;crop=0,0,100,100" />
	<figcaption>
	The "A Justiça" statue, sculpted by Alfredo Ceschiatti, in front of the Supreme Federal Court in Brasília, Brazil. | Ton Molina/Bloomberg via Getty Images	</figcaption>
</figure>
<p class="has-text-align-none">Brazil’s former president was sentenced to 27 years in prison late last year for plotting a coup. The details may sound familiar: Jair Bolsonaro lost an election. He claimed it was stolen from him and rallied supporters to storm the nation’s capital, Brasilia. The insurrection even took place in early January (2023).&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">However, the parallels between Bolsonaro and President Donald Trump go back a lot further than the coup attempt. Bolsonaro rode a wave of voter discontent to the Brazilian presidency in 2018. He was a populist and a nationalist with anti-democratic impulses, an itchy trigger finger on Twitter, and, maybe most importantly, about half his country firmly behind him.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">He even got himself nicknamed “The Trump of the Tropics.”&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">But when the dust settled, after Bolsonaro’s failed coup attempt, the two presidents’ paths diverged. Bolsonaro was indicted, tried and convicted for inciting his followers and attempting to overthrow the rightfully elected government.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">He’s in prison and barred from running for office for decades to come.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">In the United States, meanwhile, Trump is back in office. </p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">To find out why one former president is behind bars while the other is back in power, Vox’s Zack Beauchamp traveled to Brazil.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">As Beauchamp tells <em>Today, Explained </em>host Noel King, he was interested in “why Brazil&#8217;s institutions, its Congress and its Supreme Court were so much more resistant than their American peers to power grabs and attempts to rule as an imperial executive than the US ones were.”&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">The answer is complex but full of lessons for the US. For more, listen to our episode that traces the rise — and fall — of Bolsonaro, and hear what America may be able to borrow from Brazil’s chaotic political system.&nbsp;</p>

<iframe frameborder="0" height="200" src="https://playlist.megaphone.fm?e=VMP4069204969" width="100%"></iframe>

<p class="has-text-align-none">Find <em>Today, Explained </em>wherever you get your podcasts.</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none"><em>This story was supported by a grant from Protect Democracy. Vox had full discretion over the content of this reporting.</em></p>
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									</content>
			
					</entry>
			<entry>
			
			<author>
				<name>Peter Balonon-Rosen</name>
			</author>
			
			<author>
				<name>Jolie Myers</name>
			</author>
			
			<author>
				<name>Sean Rameswaram</name>
			</author>
			
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[How Rupert Murdoch took over the world]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.vox.com/podcasts/463158/rupert-murdoch-media-empire-fox-news-succession" />
			<id>https://www.vox.com/?p=463158</id>
			<updated>2025-09-29T16:28:12-04:00</updated>
			<published>2025-09-30T06:30:00-04:00</published>
			<category scheme="https://www.vox.com" term="Business &amp; Finance" /><category scheme="https://www.vox.com" term="Media" /><category scheme="https://www.vox.com" term="Money" /><category scheme="https://www.vox.com" term="Podcasts" /><category scheme="https://www.vox.com" term="Politics" /><category scheme="https://www.vox.com" term="Today, Explained podcast" />
							<summary type="html"><![CDATA[Rupert Murdoch has influenced every facet of our modern media. The scion of a newspaper baron in Australia, Murdoch built a vast empire that now spans the globe. In the US, he owns the Wall Street Journal, New York Post, and Fox News. He gave us The Simpsons, Page Six, and Bill O’Reilly. And at [&#8230;]]]></summary>
			
							<content type="html">
											<![CDATA[

						
<figure>

<img alt="Rupert Murdoch, an elderly white man with glasses, clasps his hands in front of him while seated." data-caption="Rupert Murdoch in the Oval Office of the White House on February 3, 2025. | Jim Watson/AFP via Getty Images" data-portal-copyright="Jim Watson/AFP via Getty Images" data-has-syndication-rights="1" src="https://platform.vox.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2025/09/gettyimages-2196945580.jpg?quality=90&#038;strip=all&#038;crop=0,0,100,100" />
	<figcaption>
	Rupert Murdoch in the Oval Office of the White House on February 3, 2025. | Jim Watson/AFP via Getty Images	</figcaption>
</figure>
<p class="has-text-align-none">Rupert Murdoch has influenced every facet of our modern media. The scion of a newspaper baron in Australia, Murdoch built a vast empire that now spans the globe. In the US, he owns the Wall Street Journal, New York Post, and Fox News. He gave us <em>The Simpsons</em>, Page Six, and Bill O’Reilly.</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">And at 94 years old, he’s never been more powerful. Which is why a succession battle among his four oldest children had all the trappings of a <em>Succession </em>episode but with higher stakes, such as: Who gets a direct line into the Trump White House? </p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">Earlier this month we learned the answer to that question. Rupert’s son Lachlan, a man philosophically aligned with his father’s conservative ideals, will run the empire after Rupert’s death.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">But how was the empire created? How did the son of a somewhat obscure newspaper magnate in Melbourne go on to reshape the way we consume news and understand politics?&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none"><em>Today, Explained </em>spoke with several experts who have tracked Murdoch’s rise and dominance across the globe. In the first episode of a two-part series, we focus on how Murdoch transformed his father’s holdings into a world-beating company, and how he bent people in power to his will.</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none"><em>Today, Explained</em>’s Sean Rameswaram spoke with Matthew Ricketson, a professor of communication at Deakin University; Des Freedman, a professor of media and communication studies at Goldsmiths, University of London; and Graham Murdock, professor emeritus at Loughborough University London. Their conversation has been edited for length and clarity.</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">For more on our miniseries about how Rupert Murdoch took over the world, listen to <em>Today, Explained</em> wherever you get podcasts, including <a href="https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/today-explained/id1346207297">Apple Podcasts</a>, <a href="https://www.pandora.com/podcast/today-explained/PC:140">Pandora</a>, and <a href="https://open.spotify.com/show/3pXx5SXzXwJxnf4A5pWN2A">Spotify</a>. And please check back later today for the second installment of the miniseries.</p>

<iframe frameborder="0" height="200" src="https://playlist.megaphone.fm/?e=VMP3188836720" width="100%"></iframe>

<p class="has-text-align-none"><strong>Is Rupert Murdoch a nepo baby?</strong></p>

<p class="has-text-align-none"><strong>Des Freedman (Goldsmiths, University of London professor)</strong>: Murdoch is absolutely a nepo baby.</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none"><strong>Matthew Ricketson (Deakin University professor)</strong>:  If the term nepo was in existence in 1931, yes, he is a nepo baby.</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">One of our former prime ministers, Malcolm Turnbull, who tangled with Rupert Murdoch, has described him as Australia&#8217;s deadliest export.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">His whole presentation is of this kind of scruffy, rebellious outsider figure, shaking his fist at the establishment and the elites. The reality is that when he was born in 1931, his father was the managing director of a big newspaper group in Australia. He went to Oxford University, and then his father dies in 1952 and leaves him one afternoon newspaper in Adelaide, which is another city here in Australia.</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none"><strong>Graham Murdock (Loughborough University London emeritus professor)</strong>: His father, Keith, really pioneered tabloid journalism in Australia. Keith Murdoch realized that newspapers had the power to bring down politicians. So Rupert inherited not just newspapers, but actually a whole kind of philosophy, if you like, of what newspapers could do and how to, how they operated.</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none"><strong>MR</strong>: [Rupert Murdoch is] very clear from very early on that he wants to learn everything about running newspapers and then, very quickly, from about 1954, he starts expanding.</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none"><strong>GM</strong>: He always had the reputation for being quite ruthless. </p>

<p class="has-text-align-none"><strong>DF</strong>: The main ambition was to make his father proud and to do better than his father, to internationalize the father&#8217;s operation. And he was willing to throw everything at it to get there.</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none"><strong>GM</strong>: When he came to Britain [in the 1960s], he bought the <a href="https://www.npr.org/2011/07/08/137692545/murdoch-closes-scandal-ridden-news-of-the-world">News of the World</a>, which was this humongous bestselling Sunday tabloid, a huge commercial success.<em> </em>He began looking around for a daily title, and he fixed on The Sun.</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">He immediately converted it into a tabloid, became famous for having these semi-nude models.</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none"><strong>MR</strong>: Topless women on page 3. Tabloid newspapers have been sensational for a long time. and for him, that is the key message. Those kinds of stories will drive circulation. </p>

<p class="has-text-align-none"><strong>GM</strong>: His rise in the UK coincides with the rise of Margaret Thatcher. And they share a kind of notion — they&#8217;re both outsiders. She&#8217;s a grocer’s daughter from a provincial town, not part of the old English establishment and the old English establishment, also very hostile to Rupert. They share a kind of neoliberal philosophy to free markets and antagonism to public ownership. And Murdoch’s papers were very much in support of that Thatcher agenda.</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none"><strong>MR</strong>: He already owns two of the most popular newspapers. And he wants to buy more. An opportunity comes up to buy The Times and the Sunday Times. And under the law at the time, there&#8217;s a requirement this matter is referred off to the monopolies and merger commission.  Thatcher ensures that that doesn&#8217;t happen so that he&#8217;s able to buy The Times and The Sunday Times.</p>

<figure class="wp-block-pullquote"><blockquote><p>“He has had this fascinating, but for many people, poisonous impact on political discourse, on politics more generally.”</p></blockquote></figure>

<p class="has-text-align-none"><strong>GM</strong>: The classic kind of paper of record in the UK, because he wanted to have that entree into the elite. If you look at Rupert&#8217;s career, he&#8217;s always had a popular newspaper that can address the masses, but you also have an elite newspaper so you&#8217;re speaking to the insiders, but you&#8217;re also speaking to the mass of the people. </p>

<p class="has-text-align-none"><strong>These stories you&#8217;re telling us about Rupert&#8217;s time in the UK in the ’70s and the ’80s ‚ they establish I think some major themes: one, ruthlessness, a willingness for a newsman to lie if it sells more papers or does good business, and then not just a desire to inform the public about politics, but to drive politics himself.</strong></p>

<p class="has-text-align-none"><strong>MR</strong>: That is a good summary and you can see the bitter fruits of this decades later in the form of the <a href="https://www.cnn.com/2013/10/24/world/europe/uk-phone-hacking-scandal-fast-facts">phone-hacking scandal</a> in the United Kingdom in the mid-2000s.</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none"><strong>GM</strong>: The newspapers were declining in revenues and readership. So that kind of forced them to be even more militant in looking for sensation.</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none"><strong>DF</strong>: Newspapers owned by Rupert Murdoch, that is mostly The Sun and the News of the World had hacked into the phones of members of the royal family, celebrities, but also, and this is crucial, also ordinary people, not famous people.</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none"><strong>GM</strong>: It&#8217;s discovered that they&#8217;ve hacked a phone of this dead teenage girl, Millie Dowler. People are revolted. It creates a huge public reaction.</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none"><strong>MF</strong>: You know, the Murdochs could not control the revulsion. They could not kind of put a lid on it. They were forced to do something that Murdoch has almost never done in his career, which is to close a newspaper.</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none"><strong>DF</strong>: He closed that newspaper, the News of the World, instantly. This is a newspaper that had been around for over a century. It folded overnight.</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none"><strong>GM</strong>: And then, of course, an official government commission of inquiry</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none"><strong>DF</strong>: Murdoch sat down in front of a parliamentary committee; he looked old. It was an amazing performance. He forgot all the details when they were put to him, and he said, pretty soon after that, once he got out of the committee room, he magically regained his memory and regained his posture and his poise. And of course, he has gone on to live his life in full.</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none"><strong>Rupert Murdoch’s first foray into the American media isn’t on TV.</strong></p>

<p class="has-text-align-none"><strong>DF</strong>: So he bought the<em> </em>New York Post in… </p>

<p class="has-text-align-none"><strong>MR</strong>:  …the mid-1970s… </p>

<p class="has-text-align-none"><strong>DF</strong>: … to establish a base.</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none"><strong>MR</strong>: He gets access to heavy hitters in the commercial world, in the political world, in the cultural world. </p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">Trump’s relationship with Murdoch does go back to the 1980s. And to the New York Post.</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none"><strong>GM</strong>: Murdoch had a very low opinion of him. This is a man who lost money running a casino.</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none"><strong>MR</strong>: But a good gossip column is another one of Murdoch&#8217;s must-haves in his formula for newspaper success. Page Six<em> </em>is most definitely a very successful gossip column. Trump is one of its key sources. They kind of have that symbiotic relationship where they&#8217;re constantly pumping him up, and he&#8217;s constantly feeding them stories because he&#8217;s a bit of a gossip magnet himself.</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none"><strong>DF</strong>: The brashness of Trump is very different to the much more considered strategic, studious, long-term thinking of Murdoch. It is not like it’s an immediate marriage.</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none"><strong>MR</strong>: But he realizes pretty quickly that he can make a lot more money in television. </p>

<p class="has-text-align-none"><strong>DF</strong>: And that&#8217;s when, you know, he buys 50 percent of 20th Century Fox. And that&#8217;s the beginning of the Fox Network, of the legacy we’re all now very familiar with.</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">The Simpsons ideologically is not the kind of thing you might think would sit that easily with a small-c conservative like Rupert Murdoch. This is a man who will do anything to increase the ratings and the audiences.</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none"><strong>GR</strong>: He&#8217;s also buying up film studios.</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none"><strong>DF</strong>: With <em>Titanic</em> as a movie that his studio financed; it could have ruined him — the gamble that he took on <em>Titanic</em>. And instead it made him — was it over a billion dollars that <em>Titanic</em> took?</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">But I think his ambition is always to come back to news. <em>The Simpsons</em> doesn&#8217;t get you into the White House or the front or the back door of Number 10, Downing Street. Being a news mogul does.</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none"><strong>MR</strong>: The other piece of the puzzle, in helping him develop in America is the regulatory environment. There was this thing called the Fairness Doctrine, which came up after the Second World War.</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none"><strong>GM</strong>: What that said was that if, if you were, if you were gonna cover contentious affairs on television, you had to present both sides of the story.</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none"><strong>MR</strong>: Reagan was all about deregulation, getting rid of as much regulation as you can. So the Fairness Doctrine goes and what happens then is that it unleashes or unlocks the door for the rise of people like Rush Limbaugh.<em> </em>The idea of balance and Rush Limbaugh don&#8217;t exist in the same sentence, you know?</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none"><strong>GM</strong>: It opened the space for overtly partisan television, because you didn&#8217;t have any longer to give the other side of the story.</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none"><strong>MR</strong>:  Roger Ailes, who was the key founding person for Fox News, and, Murdoch look at what the success that Rush Limbaugh is having, and they look to see if they can transplant that into television.</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none"><strong>GM</strong>: And that opened the space for Fox News. </p>

<p class="has-text-align-none"><strong>MR</strong>: Ailes and, um, Murdoch, they realize that instead of having lots and lots of correspondence everywhere, they&#8217;ll have the bare bone — so you&#8217;ll do the reporting of the news, but it won&#8217;t be a lavish suite of foreign correspondents. It&#8217;s much, much cheaper. </p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">And you will bring in guys primarily from radio like Bill O’Reilly and Sean Hannity and so on, to provide opinions about the news, what it means, how to think about it, etc.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">And so you put those people on in the evening and they bloviate on demand. They have big opinions and theatrical opinions. It changes the media landscape. It&#8217;s an enormously profitable business.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none"><strong>DF</strong>: Tabloidization — that&#8217;s what is applied to Fox News.</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none"><strong>MR</strong>: You&#8217;ve ceased being a news or journalism outfit at that point, and you&#8217;ve become something quite different, which bears a much closer relationship with propaganda. </p>

<p class="has-text-align-none"><strong>Do you think Rupert Murdoch surpassed his own expectations?</strong></p>

<p class="has-text-align-none"><strong>MR</strong>: Oh, undoubtedly. Undoubtedly. Look, who knows, I&#8217;m not in his head, so I don&#8217;t know. But if he could have looked into the crystal ball and seen himself from 1952 to 2025, I think it would&#8217;ve been very hard for him to conceive of being where he&#8217;s now.</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none"><strong>DF</strong>: He certainly transformed the British media, the Australian media, and the US media. He has had this fascinating, but for many people, poisonous impact on political discourse, on politics more generally.</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none"><strong>MR</strong>: Now we can see how much damage the company has done to journalism, to democracy. You know, they&#8217;ve created a monster, which has now gotten away from them. And there&#8217;s actually two monsters. The first monster is the Fox News audience, and the second monster is Donald Trump.</p>
						]]>
									</content>
			
					</entry>
			<entry>
			
			<author>
				<name>Jolie Myers</name>
			</author>
			
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[How weight-loss drugs ended the era of &#8220;lifestyle changes&#8221;]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.vox.com/health/394843/ozempic-weight-loss-diet-exercise-lifestyle" />
			<id>https://www.vox.com/?p=394843</id>
			<updated>2025-01-15T14:21:07-05:00</updated>
			<published>2025-01-15T14:21:07-05:00</published>
			<category scheme="https://www.vox.com" term="Health" /><category scheme="https://www.vox.com" term="Health Care" /><category scheme="https://www.vox.com" term="Podcasts" /><category scheme="https://www.vox.com" term="Policy" /><category scheme="https://www.vox.com" term="Today, Explained podcast" />
							<summary type="html"><![CDATA[When drugmakers pulled the weight-loss drug fen-phen off the market in 1997, my mom was devastated. Not because the FDA warned that the drug could severely damage her heart or even possibly kill her, but because she’d been trying to lose weight since she was aware of having a body, and the only thing that [&#8230;]]]></summary>
			
							<content type="html">
											<![CDATA[

						
<figure>

<img alt="A hand holds a rectangular orange and white box with text reading “Ozempic” on it." data-caption="A pharmacist holds a box of GLP-1 drug Ozempic at a pharmacy in Provo, Utah, on November 27, 2023. | George Frey/Bloomberg via Getty Images" data-portal-copyright="George Frey/Bloomberg via Getty Images" data-has-syndication-rights="1" src="https://platform.vox.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2025/01/gettyimages-1807239973.jpg?quality=90&#038;strip=all&#038;crop=0,0,100,100" />
	<figcaption>
	A pharmacist holds a box of GLP-1 drug Ozempic at a pharmacy in Provo, Utah, on November 27, 2023. | George Frey/Bloomberg via Getty Images	</figcaption>
</figure>
<p class="has-text-align-none">When drugmakers pulled the weight-loss drug fen-phen off the market in 1997, my mom was devastated. Not because the FDA warned that the drug could <a href="https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9688104/#:~:text=Discussion%3A%20Fenfluramine%20was%20withdrawn%20from,associated%20with%20valvular%20heart%20disease.">severely damage her heart</a> or <a href="https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2000-jan-28-fi-58472-story.html">even possibly kill her</a>, but because she’d been trying to lose weight since she was aware of having a body, and the only thing that had ever worked was being ripped out of her hands.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">This is an extreme reaction. That my mom would rather take a potentially deadly drug than face life without it illustrates just how frustrating it can be to be told you need to lose weight over and over again, try your best to do so, but find it absolutely impossible.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">For decades, the go-to prescription for weight loss was to eat better and move more — make lifestyle changes. But these changes were extremely hard to keep up long term. Even when people kept at them for years, they often yielded marginal results. Few people were treated with medication. Even fewer opted for surgical interventions.<br><br>Now GLP-1 drugs like Ozempic and Mounjaro have entered the chat. And they’ve changed the game entirely — how doctors talk to and think about patients. How we think about ourselves and what’s achievable. And why we’ve been locked into a “treatment” cycle that’s been so frustrating to so many for so long, all while <a href="https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/products/databriefs/db508.htm">obesity rates have continued to climb</a>.&nbsp;</p>

<iframe loading="lazy" frameBorder="0" height="200" src="https://playlist.megaphone.fm/?e=VMP5087766079" width="100%"></iframe>

<h2 class="wp-block-heading has-text-align-none">Why diet and exercise?</h2>

<p class="has-text-align-none">In the mid-’90s, public health experts were looking for ways to mitigate rising obesity rates, largely because obesity was linked with diseases like Type 2 diabetes and certain kinds of cancer.</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">The <a href="https://www.niddk.nih.gov/about-niddk/research-areas/diabetes/diabetes-prevention-program-dpp">NIH launched a study</a> in 1996 that would largely define clinical thinking around treatment moving forward. Researchers looked at how eating better and moving more affected instances of Type 2 diabetes. They found that lifestyle changes resulting in even a modest amount of weight loss had a major impact on Type 2 diabetes prevention. Participants who met the goal of losing just over 5 percent of their body weight reduced the incidence of Type 2 diabetes by 58 percent. To put that in perspective, if a person weighed 300 pounds, they’d need to lose about 15 pounds. These were not <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLeFSUEVslQ"><em>The Biggest Loser</em></a> weigh-ins. These were supposed to be achievable results.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">Government officials issued <a href="https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/books/NBK44209/">calls to action</a>. Doctors had real evidence that lifestyle changes mattered. Diet and exercise became <em>the </em>prescription for managing weight.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">“I&#8217;ve spent 20 years trying to sell the benefits of a 5 percent weight loss,” said Dr. Dan Bessesen, an endocrinologist and director of the <a href="https://medschool.cuanschutz.edu/health-and-wellness">CU Anschutz Health and Wellness Center</a> at the University of Colorado. “It seems like a small change in weight, and yet it had dramatic benefits.”</p>

<h2 class="wp-block-heading has-text-align-none">The limits of diet and exercise</h2>

<p class="has-text-align-none">The culture, of course, took these findings and quickly reworked them to fit existing beauty standards and narratives about personal responsibility. The argument was no longer, <em>Lose a little bit of weight to be a lot healthier</em>. Instead, it became, <em>If only a person with obesity could control themselves, they could achieve their goal.</em>&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">But biology is more complicated than that.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">“The body&#8217;s got its own idea about what it wants to weigh,” Bessesen said. Losing weight triggers all kinds of biological responses that undermine the loss. We get increasingly hungry and our body hoards energy (a.k.a. fat). This used to be helpful when we were living in caves. Now that we’ve domesticated wolves and work from home in soft pants, not so much.</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">And so the miracle cure became something of a disease in itself.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">“Doctors especially have this idea that, ‘Well, Mrs. Jones, you ought to be able to handle [losing weight] on your own,’” Bessesen said. “We don&#8217;t do that with diabetes or high blood pressure.”&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">And maybe we’re about to stop doing it with obesity.&nbsp;</p>

<h2 class="wp-block-heading has-text-align-none">The Ozempic revolution</h2>

<p class="has-text-align-none">There have been medications to treat obesity for decades. But nothing that proved as effective or culturally alluring as the idea of just eating better and exercising. Until <a href="https://www.vox.com/videos/2023/3/14/23638717/ozempic-wegovy-weight-loss-semaglutide-hormones-glp1">Ozempic</a>.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">Ozempic is one brand name of a series of drugs called <a href="https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/treatments/13901-glp-1-agonists">GLP-1 agonists</a> that have exploded in popularity in the last few years. These injectables mimic hormones that slow digestion and trigger satiety, which means you eat less and <em>want</em> to eat less. Predictably, you lose a lot of weight — <a href="https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8753508/">around 15 percent on average</a>. And, much like a cholesterol or arthritis drug, they do not rely on willpower to achieve desired results.&nbsp;&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">Which means the conversation has shifted. Patients come in asking for GLP-1s by brand name, something that just doesn’t happen with most other conditions, Bessesen told me. And doctors can write a quick prescription instead of making a person self-flagellate for months or years before they’ll consider medical intervention.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">The existence of an effective medication seems to have snapped obesity from a perceived personal failure into the category of treatable disease.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">There’s an irony worth mentioning here: People who take GLP-1 drugs <a href="https://www.nature.com/articles/s41366-024-01500-y#:~:text=The%20study%20showed%20a%20decreased,than%20in%20the%20placebo%20group.">often report</a> a distaste for ultra-processed foods and a preference for fresh fruits and vegetables. And losing weight can help people move around more freely. These drugs don’t replace lifestyle changes. They seem to make them possible.&nbsp;</p>

<h2 class="wp-block-heading has-text-align-none">An uncertain future</h2>

<p class="has-text-align-none"><a href="https://www.uchicagomedicine.org/forefront/health-and-wellness-articles/can-you-be-overweight-and-healthy">Not everyone who lives in a bigger body needs to lose weight</a>. And the body positivity movement has helped many people dismantle their own internalized fatphobia and break out of a prison made of unreachable beauty standards.</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">But some people do feel the need to make changes to prevent Type 2 diabetes or manage other health conditions. If they opt to take GLP-1 drugs, there are some challenges and drawbacks.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">Side effects can be gnarly: People have reported debilitating constipation and vomiting. The drugs are also <a href="https://www.ajmc.com/view/most-insured-adults-still-have-to-pay-at-least-part-of-the-cost-of-glp-1-drugs">cosmically expensive</a> and most insurance does not cover them for the treatment of obesity. And there’s another aspect of taking these drugs he’s concerned about: the emotional toll they can take.</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">Eating is often a social activity, so drastically changing your relationship to food can change your human relationships too. Noticeable weight loss can spark uncomfortable conversations about a person’s private health choices that are difficult to navigate. And those who have put a lot of work into embracing their weight can feel deep conflict at being able to change the body they’d grown to love.&nbsp;&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">“When we have somebody go to bariatric surgery, we prepare them for that,” Bessesen said.&nbsp;“They see a psychologist; they see a nutritionist. They talk to other people who&#8217;ve had surgery and say, ‘How was that for you?’ Medications are going to give that kind of weight loss. But we&#8217;re not preparing people for that.”</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">A new era of thinking around obesity and treatment may be helping solve some issues from the last era. But there are plenty of new ones to consider now that we’re here.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">Prices are expected to level off as more companies pump more GLP-1 drugs into the market. And there’s a compelling case for insurance companies to eventually cover the drugs. It’s expensive to treat Type 2 diabetes and cancer. Preventing those diseases could save money in the long run. It’s a little less clear when we’ll develop the systems to handle the psychological effects of altering one’s physical body. But as more people take this path, we’ll learn more about the unintended consequences of this treatment.</p>
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			<entry>
			
			<author>
				<name>Jolie Myers</name>
			</author>
			
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[In the new Miami, the old office culture reigns]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.vox.com/future-of-work/374919/miami-office-culture-andy-jassy-citadel-remote-work" />
			<id>https://www.vox.com/?p=374919</id>
			<updated>2024-10-01T11:39:38-04:00</updated>
			<published>2024-10-01T06:45:00-04:00</published>
			<category scheme="https://www.vox.com" term="Future of Work" /><category scheme="https://www.vox.com" term="Podcasts" /><category scheme="https://www.vox.com" term="Remote work" /><category scheme="https://www.vox.com" term="Technology" /><category scheme="https://www.vox.com" term="Today, Explained newsletter" /><category scheme="https://www.vox.com" term="Today, Explained podcast" />
							<summary type="html"><![CDATA[Miami has long had a reputation as a balmy party destination, a place where spring breakers, Lamborghini-driving showoffs, Cuban culture, and clubs coalesce. But the South Florida city has undergone a major transformation over the past 15 years. It became an international hub for art with Art Basel. Its high-end food scene blossomed, becoming one [&#8230;]]]></summary>
			
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<p class="has-text-align-none">Miami has long had a reputation as a balmy party destination, a place where spring breakers, Lamborghini-driving showoffs, Cuban culture, and clubs coalesce.<br><br>But the South Florida city has undergone a major transformation over the past 15 years. It became an international hub for art with Art Basel. Its high-end food scene blossomed, becoming one of the best in the nation. And, somehow, it <a href="https://qz.com/texas-florida-sun-belt-wall-street-banks-migration-1851473745">quietly</a> <a href="https://nypost.com/2023/02/17/west-palm-beach-has-become-wall-street-south/">became</a> <a href="https://www.whitewolfcapital.com/news/is-wall-street-south-here-to-stay/">“Wall Street South.”<br><br></a>J.P. Morgan and Goldman Sachs both now have major footprints in the city, and several hedge funds have sprung up there as well. A slew of <a href="https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/29/technology/join-us-in-miami-love-masters-of-the-universe.html">Silicon Valley companies set up shop in Miami</a> after the pandemic, too, in search of lower taxes and fewer Covid restrictions.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">Maybe it&#8217;s not so surprising, then, that Miami, newly flush with major corporations, has seen a bigger office comeback post-Covid than almost any other American city, <a href="https://www.placer.ai/blog/placer-ai-office-index-august-2024-recap">according to data from Placer.ai</a>, a startup that measures foot traffic to offices.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">Yesterday, <em>Today Explained</em> kicked off a miniseries on work after the pandemic by looking at how American workers were leaving the country <a href="https://www.vox.com/future-of-work/374273/portugal-remote-digital-nomad-work-life-balance">in search of work-life balance</a> and finding it in Portugal, where the country’s unique digital nomad visa programs have led to a flourishing expat remote-worker community.&nbsp;&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">For today’s installment, the <em>Today, Explained</em> podcast team returned stateside, venturing to Miami to find out more about why companies there are calling knowledge workers into the office once again, and what it can show us about the delicate dance that employers all over the nation face as they try to rebuild their corporate cultures.</p>
<div class="megaphone-fm-embed"><a href="https://megaphone.link/VMP6724847136" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">View Link</a></div>
<h2 class="wp-block-heading has-text-align-none">Going back to office for the “culture”&nbsp;</h2>

<p class="has-text-align-none">Four years after the pandemic, only about 35 percent of Americans with jobs that can be worked remotely still work entirely from home, according to a <a href="https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/03/30/about-a-third-of-us-workers-who-can-work-from-home-do-so-all-the-time/">2023 report from Pew</a>. They tend to be knowledge workers – people whose jobs demand that they’re sitting at a computer the bulk of the time.&nbsp;&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">So why are Miami’s knowledge workers going into offices instead of staying home?&nbsp;&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">The very same industries that are pouring into the South Florida city — financial services and tech — are the ones telling workers that it’s time to invest in “culture.”</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">“I think people are actually opting in to work in this culture,” Alex DiLeonardo, chief people officer for Citadel Securities, told us when we visited the financial firm’s sleek headquarters in the Brickell neighborhood of Miami in September.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">DiLeonardo used a lot of HR speak, but what he described to us was a vibes-y idea among employers that collaboration and values are forged from human interaction. The best way they think they can foster that creative “culture”? To make workers come into the office. At Citadel Securities, that means in-office, five days a week. </p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">The idea of a workplace “culture” almost <a href="https://www.theverge.com/2022/8/15/23307268/apple-hybrid-working-model-return-to-office-september">always</a> <a href="https://www.reuters.com/business/finance/jpmorgan-managing-directors-asked-work-office-five-days-week-memo-2023-04-12/">shows</a> <a href="https://www.cnbc.com/2023/01/09/disney-ceo-bob-iger-tells-employees-to-return-to-the-office-four-days-a-week.html">up</a> when a CEO calls people back to the office. Last month, Amazon CEO Andy Jassy informed employees that they would be required to return to the office five days a week. <a href="https://www.aboutamazon.com/news/company-news/ceo-andy-jassy-latest-update-on-amazon-return-to-office-manager-team-ratio">In a statement</a> titled “Strengthening our culture and teams,” Jassy made this case for in-office work: “[C]ollaborating, brainstorming, and inventing are simpler and more effective; teaching and learning from one another are more seamless; and, teams tend to be better connected to one another.”</p>
<img src="https://platform.vox.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/09/IMG_2128.jpg?quality=90&#038;strip=all&#038;crop=0,3.125,100,93.75" alt="A skyscraper with paned windows." title="A skyscraper with paned windows." data-has-syndication-rights="1" data-caption="The Miami offices of Citadel Securities. | Victoria Chamberlin/Vox" data-portal-copyright="Victoria Chamberlin/Vox" />
<p class="has-text-align-none">That’s what Hasan Altaf was looking for when he recently graduated from college. “I think in the office, it&#8217;s just creativity, collaboration, everything,” he told us. <br><br>Altaf, 22, is now a software engineer at Citadel Securities in Miami. During the pandemic, he spent eight months working an internship fully remote and said the whole thing felt kind of empty. “I felt disconnected with my team. [T]hey were just, like, faces on a screen. I never met them in person.” Now, he’s got an easy commute by metro, there are killer views of the ocean and city from the building, and he gets to absorb lessons from his colleagues in real time. “The juices are flowing here.” <br><br>To be clear, not everyone is fully opting into office life: One expert we talked with told us only about 20 percent of the 100,000 workers he’s surveyed want to be in an office five days a week. Another 30 percent wanted to work from home 100 percent of the time. </p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">While people are back in the office at greater rates in Miami, in general, workers across the country want more flexibility.</p>

<h2 class="wp-block-heading has-text-align-none">Companies vs. the worker</h2>

<p class="has-text-align-none">Many workers have gotten a taste of a different kind of life over the past four years, and for the vast majority, working from home has afforded an unprecedented sense of work-life balance, <a href="https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/03/30/about-a-third-of-us-workers-who-can-work-from-home-do-so-all-the-time/">according to Pew</a>.<strong>&nbsp;</strong></p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">Many of them resent giving up the flexibility of hybrid or fully at-home work in favor of ideating in an <a href="https://hbr.org/2019/11/the-truth-about-open-offices">open-concept office</a> in hard pants. A <a href="https://www.newsweek.com/majority-remote-workers-would-quit-if-forced-return-office-1952885#:~:text=In%20FlexJobs'%20recent%20report%2C%2057,to%20return%20to%20the%20office.">recent survey of remote workers</a> found that nearly 60 percent said they would quit if asked to return to the office.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">And there’s evidence that flexible models might be good not just for workers but for companies,&nbsp; too.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">According to a recent <a href="https://www.usatoday.com/money/blueprint/business/hr-payroll/remote-work-statistics/#sources">USA Today Blueprint survey</a>, 58 percent of white-collar workers prefer a hybrid model (working from home at least three days a week).&nbsp;A <a href="https://www.mckinsey.com/industries/real-estate/our-insights/americans-are-embracing-flexible-work-and-they-want-more-of-it">McKinsey survey</a> this summer found that&nbsp;87 percent of workers would say yes to flexible work if it’s offered.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">This means a company that adopts a fully in-office policy team could see the plan backfire, according to <a href="https://nbloom.people.stanford.edu/bio">Nick Bloom</a>, a professor of economics at Stanford University who studies workplace trends.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">“[O]ne way this plays out is they have a ton of quits. They find it harder to hire,” Bloom said. “I know from talking to my own undergrads and MBAs, they don&#8217;t want to go in five days a week. So it&#8217;s going to be harder to hire them,” he said.&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">A lot of firms get hung up on the idea of productivity, Bloom said. Companies, he argues, should measure their office policies against profitability.<em> </em>Not paying for an office is a huge cost saver. “It also turns out, if you&#8217;re hiring folks remotely, you can hire a lot better employee for your money because you&#8217;re not looking locally, you&#8217;re looking nationally or even globally.” The talent pool is the entire world.<br><br>Bloom recently <a href="https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-024-07500-2">published a study</a> looking closely at this question of productivity. Working with a giant Chinese travel company, Bloom and his team compared two cohorts: The first worked in the office five days a week and the second was offered a hybrid schedule. They found that the hybrid workers were happier with their jobs and that fewer quit. They also found that performance reviews were not affected. People got their work done and they were happier.&nbsp;</p>

<h2 class="wp-block-heading has-text-align-none">“Give me a good reason to come in every day” </h2>

<p class="has-text-align-none">Chatting up workers in Miami, we heard some complaints: “Give me a good reason to come in every day.” “I don’t need my boss babysitting my work.” “Commuting sucks.”&nbsp;</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">A lot of people, though, were willing to meet the CEO culture warriors halfway and acknowledged that some time in the office was great for getting to know the people they worked with. They were also able to build trust with colleagues and learn by watching others do their jobs. For companies in the tech and financial spaces that are so vital to Miami’s rebirth, having workers meet them in the middle helps them navigate a number of issues beyond “culture,” too, including data privacy.&nbsp;&nbsp;</p>
<img src="https://platform.vox.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/09/i-rH3XvS8-X2.jpg?quality=90&#038;strip=all&#038;crop=0.01953125,0,99.9609375,100" alt="An aerial photo of the seashore in Miami, featuring a four-lane road parallel to the beach and a high-rise hotel and pool opposite." title="An aerial photo of the seashore in Miami, featuring a four-lane road parallel to the beach and a high-rise hotel and pool opposite." data-has-syndication-rights="1" data-caption="Why would you want to go to the office if you lived here? | Victoria Chamberlin/Vox" data-portal-copyright="Victoria Chamberlin/Vox" />
<p class="has-text-align-none">Workers will be the ultimate judge of whether Citadel Securities and other companies with the strictest office policies are right for them. If they disagree, they might just choose to develop their careers elsewhere.</p>

<p class="has-text-align-none">For DiLeonardo, these complicated choices are just part of the new world order of work — and maybe even a sign of how far work culture has come.<br><br>“As somebody who spent my entire career in the people space, I think it&#8217;s great that all of these different forms of working are causing organizations and societies to ask questions about how best to enable individuals to succeed in their different roles and their different careers,” he said.&nbsp; “But I also think that leaves a ton of room for organizations to choose the kind of environment that they provide and be very clear in the social contract about what it means to work at this&nbsp; company.”&nbsp;</p>
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			<author>
				<name>Jolie Myers</name>
			</author>
			
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[Multigenerational housing is coming back in a big way]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.vox.com/24115808/multigenerational-housing-us-families-personal-finance" />
			<id>https://www.vox.com/24115808/multigenerational-housing-us-families-personal-finance</id>
			<updated>2024-03-29T18:02:35-04:00</updated>
			<published>2024-04-01T07:15:00-04:00</published>
			<category scheme="https://www.vox.com" term="Housing" /><category scheme="https://www.vox.com" term="Policy" /><category scheme="https://www.vox.com" term="Today, Explained newsletter" />
							<summary type="html"><![CDATA[Layla Ahmed is, by any measure, a responsible adult. She works at a nonprofit in Nashville helping refugees. Makes 50k a year. Saves money. Pays her bills on time. But there&#8217;s another measure of adulthood that has so far eluded her. Ahmed, 23, moved back in with her parents after graduating college in 2022.&#160; &#8220;There [&#8230;]]]></summary>
			
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<p>Layla Ahmed<strong> </strong>is, by any measure, a responsible adult. She works at a nonprofit in Nashville helping refugees. Makes 50k a year. Saves money. Pays her bills on time.</p>

<p>But there&rsquo;s another measure of adulthood that has so far eluded her. Ahmed, 23, moved back in with her parents after graduating college in 2022.&nbsp;</p>

<p>&ldquo;There is a perception that those who live with their parents into their 20s are either bums or people who are not hard-working,&rdquo; she told the <em><a href="https://www.vox.com/today-explained-podcast" data-source="encore">Today, Explained</a></em>&nbsp;podcast.</p>

<p>Being neither of those things, Ahmed and her situation actually point to a growing trend in America right now: More adults, especially younger adults, are either moving back in with family or never leaving at all.&nbsp;</p>

<p>According to the Pew Research Center,<a href="https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2022/07/20/young-adults-in-u-s-are-much-more-likely-than-50-years-ago-to-be-living-in-a-multigenerational-household/"> a quarter of all adults ages 25 to 34 now live in a multigenerational living situation</a> (which it defines as a household with two or more adult generations).&nbsp;</p>

<p>It&rsquo;s a number that&rsquo;s been creeping upward since the early &lsquo;70s but has swung up precipitously in the last 15 years. The decennial US Census measures multigenerational living slightly differently (three or more generations living together), but the trend still checks out. From 2010 to 2020, there was a nearly 18 percent <a href="https://www.census.gov/library/stories/2023/06/several-generations-under-one-roof.html">increase in the number of multigenerational households</a>.&nbsp;</p>

<p>The research arm of the apartment listing and resident services company RentCafe went granular on Gen Z and <a href="https://www.rentcafe.com/blog/rental-market/market-snapshots/multigenerational-households/">found that 68 percent over the age of 18 still live with a parent or parents</a>. As for millennials, 20 percent are back with mom and/or dad (or just never left).</p>

<p>Given the bum stigma (to paraphrase Layla Ahmed), what&rsquo;s going on here?&nbsp;</p>
<h2 class="wp-block-heading">What’s driving this?</h2>
<p>When <a href="https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2022/03/24/financial-issues-top-the-list-of-reasons-u-s-adults-live-in-multigenerational-homes/">Pew recently surveyed</a> people living in multigenerational homes, more of them said financial issues drove the decision to move in with family than any other reason.&nbsp;</p>

<p>Which: Yes. Total <a href="https://www.vox.com/student-loan-debt" data-source="encore">student loan debt</a> has <a href="https://www.federalreserve.gov/releases/g19/HIST/cc_hist_memo_levels.html">ticked slightly down</a> in the past few years but not by much. Meanwhile, inflation. <a href="https://www.vox.com/videos/2023/2/24/23613892/inflation-prices-rising-explained">You may have heard of her</a>. And, oh yeah, <a href="https://www.jpmorgan.com/insights/real-estate/housing-market/the-american-homeowners-dream-vs-recent-reality">home affordability last fall was the lowest it had been since the &lsquo;80s</a>.&nbsp;</p>

<p>&ldquo;I think it&rsquo;s a contemporary trend, whether it&rsquo;s to be able to save the money to buy a home, to be able to go back for a master&rsquo;s degree or to be able to do something to further their ability as independent adults,&rdquo; said Donna Butts, executive director of <a href="https://www.gu.org/">Generations United</a>, a nonprofit that researches and advocates for multigenerational households.</p>

<p>Major macro disruptions &mdash; financial or otherwise &mdash; often lead to spikes in multigenerational living: &ldquo;We&rsquo;ve seen the largest increases when our country has had a recession or a housing bust and then Covid,&rdquo; Butts said. &ldquo;But what people are surprised by is they always think that the numbers are going to decrease again.&rdquo;&nbsp;</p>

<p>Masks off, goodbye Mom and Dad? Not exactly.</p>

<p><a href="https://www.census.gov/content/dam/Census/library/visualizations/time-series/demo/families-and-households/ad-1.pdf">The census</a> found that there <em>was</em> a dip in younger adults living with parents after a spike at the height of the pandemic. But the dip was pretty shallow. Which means many people moved in and just never left.&nbsp;</p>

<p><a href="https://www.vox.com/policy/2023/4/17/23667770/child-care-crisis-prek-family-immigration">Amid skyrocketing costs</a> and <a href="https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2022/9/27/23356278/the-pandemic-child-care-inflation-crisis">labor shortages in care work</a> at <a href="https://www.vox.com/the-goods/22639674/elder-care-family-costs-nursing-home-health-care">either end of life</a> have also pulled people into multigenerational housing. <a href="https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2022/03/24/financial-issues-top-the-list-of-reasons-u-s-adults-live-in-multigenerational-homes/">Nearly a third of people surveyed by Pew</a> said caregiving &mdash; child, elder, or otherwise &mdash; was the primary reason they lived in a multigenerational situation.&nbsp;</p>

<p>One more reason multigenerational housing is on the rise: <a href="https://www.brookings.edu/articles/new-2020-census-data-shows-an-aging-america-and-wide-racial-gaps-between-generations/">America is getting less white</a>. Hispanic and Asian people, especially if they are immigrants, are more likely to <a href="https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2022/03/24/financial-issues-top-the-list-of-reasons-u-s-adults-live-in-multigenerational-homes/">live with extended family</a>. Black families are also traditionally more open to these arrangements.&nbsp;</p>

<p><a href="https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/05/03/in-the-u-s-and-abroad-more-young-adults-are-living-with-their-parents/">In many</a> cultures <a href="https://www.un.org/en/development/desa/population/publications/pdf/popfacts/PopFacts_2019-2.pdf">around the world</a>, multigenerational living &mdash; at least until marriage, and often even after &mdash;&nbsp;is the norm, not the exception.&nbsp;</p>
<img src="https://platform.vox.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/chorus/uploads/chorus_asset/file/25362427/GettyImages_1380926333.jpg?quality=90&#038;strip=all&#038;crop=0,0,100,100" alt="" title="" data-has-syndication-rights="1" data-caption="" data-portal-copyright="Getty Images" />
<p>Given some of these factors driving the increase, I suppose it&rsquo;s not surprising to see the way polling shakes out when it comes to these living situations.&nbsp;</p>

<p>Overall, <a href="https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2022/08/24/americans-more-likely-to-say-its-a-bad-thing-than-a-good-thing-that-more-young-adults-live-with-their-parents/">a little more than a third of Americans </a>say this trend is &ldquo;bad for society&rdquo; (ouch), per Pew&rsquo;s research. But white people are more likely to say it&rsquo;s bad news (41 percent) than Black people (26 percent), Hispanic people (28 percent), or Asian people (23 percent). Men find it more objectionable than women, older people are less on board, and Republicans are the least into this of any group measured.&nbsp;</p>

<p>Dave Ramsey fits a few of the above categories. White dude; baby boomer. Definitely conservative, though he&rsquo;s not much for party politics. He is also perhaps the most <a href="https://www.ramseysolutions.com/shows/the-ramsey-show">popular personal finance personality in America</a>, preaching a gospel of aggressive saving, home ownership, and freedom from debt (besides a modest mortgage).&nbsp;</p>

<p>Ramsey told <em>Today, Explained </em>on a recent visit to his studio, &ldquo;It&rsquo;s not a kid that&rsquo;s a college graduate with a degree in logistics that has the ability to make 120k. He&rsquo;s not living in his daddy&rsquo;s basement, okay? It&rsquo;s career choice and direction.&rdquo;&nbsp;</p>

<p>But Ramsey loosened up a bit when asked about the potential for an adult living with parents to pay down debt. He said that if giving up autonomy temporarily means getting very real about paying off debt, &ldquo;Sure. Have at it. I&rsquo;m in.&rdquo;&nbsp;</p>

<p>Butts points out, though, that <a href="https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2016/05/24/for-first-time-in-modern-era-living-with-parents-edges-out-other-living-arrangements-for-18-to-34-year-olds/">multigenerational living used to be pretty common before World War II </a>&mdash; and for decades before that. It was after the war when people got in cars, got jobs in suburbs, and bought homes with more space for fewer people. Nuclear families.&nbsp;</p>

<p>By 1960, a new norm had entered the chat. The vast majority of adults were peacing out from mom and dad&rsquo;s and not looking back.&nbsp;&nbsp;</p>

<p>&ldquo;And we then said that was the way that people <em>should</em> live, that they should be independent, that we don&rsquo;t need each other &mdash; when in fact we do need each other,&rdquo; she said. That includes for things like caregiving, staving off loneliness, and helping out (collectively) with the bills. Pooling resources is also better for the climate, she said.</p>

<p>&ldquo;We need to realize that it&rsquo;s not a matter of us going back. It&rsquo;s a matter of us going forward to something that is better and healthier for many families.&rdquo;</p>

<p><em>Additional reporting by Noel King and Amanda Lewellyn.</em></p>

<p><em>This story appeared originally in&nbsp;</em><a href="https://www.vox.com/today-explained-podcast"><em><strong>Today, Explained</strong></em></a><em>, Vox&rsquo;s flagship daily newsletter.&nbsp;</em><a href="https://www.vox.com/pages/today-explained-newsletter-signup"><em><strong>Sign up here for future editions</strong></em></a><em>.</em></p>
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