Swiping, chatting, ghosting, and scammers — online dating is complicated for digital natives used to communicating mainly online. But what if you’re giving it a shot for the first time in your 60s? 

“I felt a little too old to be out in bars trying to pick up women,” said Bruce, a 66-year-old from Long Island, New York, who started online dating using Zoosk more than two years ago (Zoosk is a general dating website, but one that’s popular among older singles). “I was a little hesitant because I hadn’t dated in a long time — I was married for 26 years or so — but I thought online dating would be a good way to break the ice, and everybody’s equal on the internet.”

For those 65 and older, a group with much higher marriage rates than young adults, online dating can be an easier way to meet other singles and people outside of their friend groups. According to Pew Research, the rate of people ages 55 to 64 using dating sites and apps doubled between 2013 and 2016. And as of last fall, 13 percent of people 65 and older have gone online to find love compared to 48 percent of those aged 18 to 29. That number is likely increasing, especially now that the pandemic has forced everyone, but especially higher-risk seniors, to socially distance.

“As you get older, it’s much harder to meet people,” says Rita, 67, from Long Island. “I always had luck just running into people — I met my second husband at a record shop — but after he died, I was lonely for sure.” She found that browsing online became the new spontaneous meet-cute. (Spoiler alert: She met and then started dating Bruce on Zoosk!) 

As these seniors prove, the highs and the lows of joining a dating website can happen at any age — even in the middle of a pandemic. Here, five people over 60 share their experiences with finding love on the internet. 

“Sometimes I feel like part of it is my age, that people might think that I’m either gullible or a target financially”

Janet, 68, New York, New York

I went back on dating sites a little bit more seriously in the last year because you hear so many success stories, so you think, “Okay, fine. Maybe I’m just not doing it correctly.” But personally, I haven’t had too much success. I was on Zoosk for about a year, and I had three scammers. In two of the cases, I found out it wasn’t their real pictures. In this day and age, you only have to Google somebody’s name. Or you’ll try to make plans — this is pre-pandemic — and they’ll say, “No, I can’t do it. Oh, I’m traveling. Oh, I’m stuck here.” I also found that anybody who says they’re a civil engineer is a scammer because they have to go to places like Malaysia or Indonesia to build some roads or a bridge — and then they need money because they can’t get back. 

Sometimes I feel like part of it is my age, that people might think that I’m either gullible or a target financially. But I don’t want to be a nurse, a purse, or worse. I’m actually speaking with somebody tonight that I met on Coffee Meets Bagel who seems pretty normal. But I suggested a FaceTime first so I can actually see if he matches his picture. 

“In my profile, I said that I wasn’t looking for drama”

Bruce, 66, Long Island, New York

I wanted to try online dating because I felt a little too old to be out in bars trying to pick up women. I’m youthful, but you know, it’s just not easy for me at this point. I wasn’t nervous, but I was a little hesitant because I hadn’t dated in a long time — I was married for 26 years or so — but I thought online dating would be a good way to break the ice, and everybody’s equal on the internet. 

I tried Zoosk because I heard it was better for older people. In my profile, I said that I wasn’t looking for drama, just looking for somebody with similar interests. Oh, and no Trumpers! I actually put that in there, because prior to meeting my girlfriend Rita, I went on a date with a woman who was very sweet, but she said she prayed for Trump every morning. Really. It was a turn-off. After that, I tried talking at first with someone to make it a little bit more comfortable for when we did meet in person. But it hasn’t been all bad — Rita and I are about to celebrate our two-year anniversary.

I don’t tell people what to do in general, but if a friend is struggling, I say, you know, online dating worked for me. And there’s always a chance you meet a good friend. 

“As you get older, it’s much harder to meet people”

Rita, 67, Long Island, New York

The night I met Bruce, I had gone on a date with another man who sounded very athletic, and he was a professor, too. I thought, “This sounds like an interesting person!” Well, the minute I met him, I was like, “No, no, no.” He was very forward, and it made me uncomfortable. So I told him I was getting tired, even though it was only 6:30 pm. I got in my car and remembered that I had spoken to Bruce earlier in the week, so I called him and said, “What are you doing?” I just had to shake that other guy from my psyche. Bruce and I met up, and it was a completely different experience. We just felt comfortable.

I decided to do online dating because my husbands kept dying. I’ve had a really bad run. My first husband died when I was 40, and I had just started having children with him. And then I met somebody 10 years later, and then he died in 18 months. And then I did finally remarry somebody else. And then he died about, I think this is nine years now. 

As you get older, it’s much harder to meet people. I always had luck just running into people — I met my second husband at a record shop — but after he died, I was lonely for sure. I had a full life otherwise, but as a widow, my kids were in school and all the other parents were double-dating and going out with each other, and they just didn’t ask me to come. 

So what do you do? You look for somebody that’s really compatible and hope that they like to do the same things you do. But unlike meeting someone in your 20s, when you meet somebody in their 60s, they’re coming in with a whole set of experiences and likes. And sometimes it’s pretty hard to embrace it. One guy called me up and he said, “Listen, I love to sail, and my friends and I are going out on a weekend adventure, are you up for it?” Like, what do you think, I’m nuts?! Risk my life? I couldn’t get over it, but I guess that’s just the way he was!

“I really would like a younger man in his 70s because too many men in their 80s have just let themselves go”

Elaine, 82, Spring Lake, Michigan

I’ve been widowed now five years since my second husband passed away. I know I don’t want to get married again, and maybe this sounds horrible, but I really just want to have a man in my life. Both of my husbands were very loving and affectionate men, and I miss that horribly.

For my dating profile, I have a girlfriend that helps me get hooked up on a site and then she takes my pictures and tells me, you know, we’ll put that in there and put that in there. I know a lot of women who are younger than me, and in my mind, they look older than me because I keep myself current. I’m not dead yet! And so I really would like a younger man in his 70s because too many men in their 80s have just let themselves go. You can’t believe some of the, um, some of the pictures that come up on my accounts, and I just think, “Really?” One time I went on a lunch date, I’m sitting there waiting for him, and pretty soon I hear this click, click, click. I glance up and here comes this man with a cane! I had no idea. 

Online dating during the pandemic can be frustrating because I’m more of a face-to-face person. I don’t want to talk on the phone for a long time because you can’t see the other person’s expressions. And I’m not quite into the Zoom thing yet, so I would be very willing to, you know, meet for a lunch or glass of wine or whatever, even right now.

In the very beginning, after their father passed away, my children didn’t like the idea of me having anybody in my life. But I explained to them, “You don’t understand what it’s like to be alone and not having that partner.” And now I just tease them about it. This is who I am. So they just roll their eyes and think, “Oh, mother.”

“I know what I want, and what I don’t want”

Kathee, 65, Grand Haven, Michigan

I actually started online dating way back in 2008. I was getting divorced, and so I was on Match. I’ve also been on eHarmony, and that didn’t work out well. I found out that there’s a lot of scamming going on on these websites. That why I stopped eHarmony. This one guy was getting pushy and then he disappeared completely. It was because they kicked him off the site! That’s why I started using Plenty of Fish.

The older you get, the pickier you become. I have a boyfriend now, but when I was online dating, I was looking for someone in my own age category who had a job or was retired — not anyone who needed someone to put a roof over their head. I wanted someone who was able to take care of themselves. At this age, you end up maybe living with someone versus marrying them just because of all the money that gets involved and gets tangled up, like 401(k)s and Social Security. If the guy I’m dating now doesn’t work out, I don’t know if I’d do it again, because as men get older, they want someone to just take care of them. 

I remember even my mom was a widow at 70 and she joined a golf group. She gets there and it’s mostly men in their 70s, and she goes “Oh, this one’s got this pain, and this one’s got this ache. I’ve done my deal with having a sick husband and I am not doing it again.” I just know myself better now, and I know what I want, and what I don’t want.

A few weeks ago, Christina Wairegi, 29, a cinematographer, and Tiffany Armour, 37, a digital imaging technician, were complete strangers. Their only connection was a mutual friend in the film industry who recommended that Tiffany followed Christina on Instagram.

Then, when the killing of George Floyd sparked worldwide protests, Tiffany saw that Christina was asking her friends over Instagram Stories to chip in so she could buy supplies for protesters. Tiffany DMed Christina to donate $100 — and to offer up her van to help move water, snacks, and PPE to protest sites. Neither were working with organizers or specific organizations, but were looking for ways they could help out.

The Brooklyn-based pair quickly became inseparable, texting every morning to find out where protests would happen, then going to grocery stores to fill Tiffany’s van with supplies. Every night, Christina would keep a detailed spreadsheet of the money coming in via Venmo and Cash App — and tracked receipts on what they were spending. After nine days, the pair raised $12,712.53 for supplies, and donated the $4,800 left over to the Marsha P. Johnson Institute. (A friend’s company then tripled the donation.) Here’s how Christina and Tiffany became fast friends — and how they used the power of social media to fundraise a lot of cash during the current protests.

Christina: We met in person for the first time at a grocery store, and it was the second morning I started buying supplies. Tiffany just volunteered; I hadn’t even asked anyone to help! I was overjoyed because having another person and a van would mean we could get more supplies out to people. We just dove right in. And then it just became Tiffany and I strategizing for like 10 hours every day. 

Tiffany: What was so great about Christina is every night she did accounting. She recorded every receipt, so you could track your dollars. We wanted to be very honest and fair. 

Christina: It was kind of like almost an accident, how much money we raised. It started when I  was talking with my friend, Rachel, and we’d been at the memorial for George Floyd. No one could really shake this feeling of wanting to do more. And so Rachel and I started talking about buying some waters and handing them out.

We came up with the idea because in 2014, I was protesting Eric Garner’s death, and I was really emotional while I was leading chants. A really lovely person I’d never met before just happened to have extra waters. He gave me one, and it was like lifesaving. It’s a really small aspect that can have a really powerful impact. That was over six years ago, and I haven’t forgotten it. 

Tiffany: Especially in times like this, a lot of us are out of work. A lot of us are upset with the system. A lot of us are out there protesting, and some of us don’t have money for food while we’re out there. It’s true. The energy Christina has is incredible, so it’s hard not to follow her lead.

Christina: I joked with Tiffany that I’ve never had so many white people hand me money! I felt so responsible [for it]. I also never dreamed that we would get as much money as we did. We thought we’d get 60 bucks or something. On the first day alone, we raised $3,140. 

Tiffany: Social media was a big part of it because it has the power to get your message to a lot of people. Whenever we would do anything, like shop or set up at a location, I would tell Christina, “Let’s post this!” And after showing people what we were doing, they wanted to give the money — I didn’t even have to ask. 

Also, when you donate money to places, there’s often not a lot of transparency. You hope the money is used for good, but maybe because ours was so social media-centric, we could show like upload pictures of us shopping and the cars full of things we bought. Our spreadsheet was getting live updates, and there’s photos of all the receipts. We just wanted to be accountable.

Christina: A lot of people are out of work, especially a lot of our friends because we’re all artists, but it’s nice that people can give $1, $5, or $10. I made it super clear from the beginning that $1 buys one person a bottle of water. So maybe you think it’s not a lot, but if you can give three bucks, you help three people. And the math actually ended up being that $1 buys six bottles of water because water is that cheap. The one thing I really never expected was that at the protests, people were just handing us twenties left and right.

Tiffany: Our main concern was getting supplies to the protesters while trying to prevent the spread of coronavirus and making sure everyone felt they had a place to go if they needed Gatorade or any kind of medical supplies. 

Christina: There were others [handing out supplies], many with just what they could carry in backpacks. The first day we walked several miles with protesters and marched. As the operation got bigger, we started setting up at the speeches and we would flood the road at the start, making a line basically of people handing out supplies into the crowd to get to as many people as we could. We were in different locations each day. We did 16 marches in 10 days in different Brooklyn neighborhoods. I was protesting in the crowds before we were handing out supplies, but rededicated myself to doing the work of support once all the money came in. 

We had adults coming up to us crying that we were offering them free water and Cheez-Its. Others were like, “What organization are you guys?” And we finally got to a place where we just started saying, “We’re just friends!”

Every step of the way there were incredible surprises that were so humbling. We got so close with the employees of the Pathmark on Albany Avenue that they would send us to the front of the line and tell all the shoppers that we were essential workers buying things to give away. And at the Super Foodtown on Fulton street, the manager got us free waters and free bags of ice multiple times. The employees even helped pack the cars with us.

Tiffany: It’s inspiring. Since doing this, I do want to volunteer more, especially in the film industry. I want to go into communities where schools aren’t funded well and do a little film program. I want to help out.

Christina: First of all, I’ll work with Tiffany on anything. I love her. I miss her. While we were doing it, we would text each other first thing in the morning: “What time are we meeting?” “We got to get there to get XYZ.” “We ran out of Oreos too early yesterday.” We always have strategies. We’d have to wait till late in the night when organizers  posted where the marches would be and we’d make sure we got out on social and coordinated all the volunteers we could get. We were in communication basically all day every day for, for eight or nine days.

Tiffany: I’ll work with Christina anytime! We are so in sync. There were times we didn’t even need to talk to each other. We knew exactly what needed to be done.

Christina: Funny enough, on our last day we were wrapping up and by then a lot of people had been working with us for like over a week. When I said that I met Tiffany on Day 2, people were shocked. They really thought we’d known each other for years!

If you have a compelling story about how money comes into play in one of your relationships — whether with a partner, a friend, a sibling, a coworker — we want to hear about it! Email alanna.okun@vox.com and karen.turner@vox.com with a little about yourself.

Welcome to Money Talks, a series in which we interview people about their relationships with money, their relationships with each other, and how those relationships inform one another.

Megan and Logan Wolf, both 34, have been married for 11 years and live in the Bay Area with their two children — and four dogs. Logan works in law enforcement and Megan stays at home to manage the household. Logan lovingly says the two of them juggling it all is like “managing a small business.”

When they moved from the Bay Area to Tucson, Arizona, in 2010, their household started to grow quickly. At the time, Megan worked for an animal rescue and would sometimes take her work home. Before they knew it, foster dogs that were only meant to stay in their home temporarily became permanent residents. 

The costs grew just as quickly as their pack, and when the pair moved to more expensive cities (first Washington, DC, and then back to the Bay Area), they were suddenly paying thousands of dollars a month to manage, at that point, six dogs — a ragtag pack that included labs, pit bulls, Shar-Peis and hound-dog mutts.

And even though the expenses — vet visits, food, supplements, and toys — have added up over the years (they’ve even lost security deposits on apartments), neither Megan nor Logan could have anticipated the tough decision they’d have to make when one of their dogs suffered an emergency vet visit. Both of them say they would never compromise a dog’s health, but how do you decide if and when a dog’s illnesses are worth the emotional and monetary costs? As their story proves, the choice is never easy. 

The following conversation is lightly condensed and edited for clarity.

Megan: Both of us grew up having dogs. We adopted our first dog, Crash, when we got engaged. I had been begging for months and months, “Please, I want to adopt a dog.” And he was like, “No, we really can’t afford it.” We were living on Top Ramen. 

Logan: My stepdad was a finance manager and a CFO in health care, so everything comes down to money. And he basically said, “Just take $10,000 and throw it off a bridge. That’s what a dog is going to cost you.”

Megan: I wish that’s all a dog cost at this point. I had just turned 21 when we adopted Crash — she’s 13 years old now — and we adopted her when she was maybe seven weeks old from a rescue down in San Jose, where we were living at the time, and soon after we adopted one of our other dogs, Nicki. Then we moved to Tucson, where we started finding stray dogs. They’re rampant down there; there’s even an area on the south side of town called the Dogpatch where people will dump their dogs because they don’t want to pay the shelter intake fee.

Logan: Everything is compounded when you have multiple dogs. One dog, you buy a $60 bag of food; you register one dog with the county and that’s $20. And then you take your dog to the vet for a checkup and that’s $50. You multiply that with multiple dogs and now you’re starting to add up expenses a lot quicker. 

Megan: With six dogs, we went through one bag of food a week. So that’s about $60, so close to $250 in dog food a month. 

And then you’ve probably got another $100 in vitamins and supplements. And then medicine. One dog had valley fever and he was on [antifungal] itraconazole for his entire seven years with us. He passed away last year. And that was probably another $200 in medication every month. 

When we were in Arizona working with the rescue, we had access to a low-cost rescue vet and access to lower-cost food that was high quality, so it wasn’t bad. But when we were in Washington, DC, and then living here in the Bay Area, we weren’t with the rescue group anymore. Food was definitely the most expensive cost, outside of the vet bills.

Logan: The tension came up when [we were in Arizona and] there were rescue dogs that were coming back to our house that I was told a dog would only be staying for a week at a time, and then the dog never left. And that happened three times. 

Megan: Luna’s sitting right here, she can hear you. She’s offended.

Logan: It’s just trying to find a balance between, “The dog came home, and the dog’s supposed to leave, but didn’t,” and, “Where else is this dog going to go now that it has been taken out of the shelter?” We still have those conversations.

Megan: So our two youngest dogs, Posey and Luna, have always had issues with one another. We’ve gone through multiple bouts of training, both in Arizona and up here. But back in August, they got into it, and we separated them right away. It should not have been a big deal because it was just a kerfuffle that has happened many times in our house, but Posey was bleeding.

So we called our vet. We go to a vet that’s probably about an hour away in traffic because it is the lowest-cost vet that we found here, and they had no availability that day, so we ended up going to a vet that’s a family friend. 

Then the next day, she was getting really sick. By the next morning, her limbs were cold, she was not getting up at all, and we ended up having to rush her to the emergency vet. She was basically so sick by the time we got her there that her organs were shutting down. She was dying. 

And that’s when they started bringing the bills to us saying, “Listen, to get her through to Wednesday …” What were they quoting us? Fifteen grand to get through from Saturday to Wednesday.

We didn’t really know what to do. We went to one of our really close friends who’s very big in animal rescue and has a huge following on Instagram and social media. And she was like, “Well, you guys have done a lot over the years for the rescue community. I want to post a fundraiser for you guys.” And I was of the mindset, “I don’t know who’s going to donate to us. My husband has a good job, we live in the Bay Area. It’s a very expensive place to live. We travel.” I wouldn’t say that we’re well off, but we live a good life. [Their household income at that time was around $120,000.] But not to the extent that we have $15,000 to $20,000 to try to save one of our animals.

We had a little in savings, and we would have had to eat through it to try to save her. But in my mind, she was only a 7-year-old dog. She was completely healthy otherwise. With this, I felt like, “This was a complete freak accident that should not have happened. We need to try to do what we can to save her if she’s fighting.” And it felt like she was fighting.

So they posted the fundraiser for us. I think by the end of everything, people had donated almost $4,000, which was really, really incredible. We had a lot of conversations between Logan, myself, and some of my other friends in rescue that have multiple dogs where we asked, “At what point is the cost [to keep a dog alive] too much, especially when you have two young children?”

That was hard for me, because I was looking at Logan going, “Okay. If I need to find a part-time job on the weekends where you can watch the kids when you’re home and I’ll go and work on the weekends to pay off this vet bill, I’ll do it. I’ll do whatever I need to do to save my dog.” And I think everyone else was trying to counsel me otherwise. Like, “That’s not realistic. You’re thinking emotionally, you’re thinking with your heart.” Your dogs are like your kids. You love them. So it doesn’t come from a rational place for me, and I know that’s where Logan differs. 

Logan: For me, the conversation out of the gate was just like, “The dog needs to be fixed, but I also am not looking to spend a bunch of money. And at some point here, we’ve got to throw in the towel.” But that’s not my decision either.

As my stepdad has said — Megan’s not going to want to hear this — but he said, “It’s cheaper to fix the dog than it is to fix your wife.” What he meant by that is like, the emotional impact that this will have to put down the dog is going to be greater on your partner than it’s going to be on your wallet, and money is going to come.

Money’s not everything. It does matter, but at the same time, you need to look out for the mental health of your partner and to some degree deal with the financial implications later.

Megan: It was the worst-case scenario where something that should have been a very small vet bill turned into an absolute nightmare, and we lost Posey.

It’s hard to not feel responsible. Because had I been 100 percent aware, I would have made sure that they weren’t in the backyard together. It sort of feels like I don’t deserve the responsibility of having another dog under my care. I really feel like I failed her on that one, so I’m sure that’s something that I’ll have to work past.

Our three oldest dogs are 13, 12, and 11. So I know that within the next couple of years, we’ll be down to just one. Which will be strange — and sadly, it’s also a little bit of a relief. I love them immensely, but I think having six is too much.

When you’re thinking about compromises — monetary compromises and lifestyle compromises — the experience of having so many dogs for the six or seven years, there were a lot of really wonderful moments and a lot of really good memories. But I don’t think that it’s something that I would ever replicate again. 

Our daughter is 3, and every time we go to Arizona, we go to the shelter down there. We went on Christmas and we handed out treats, and every time we go, she completely understands that these cats and these dogs and these animals need homes. And to her, growing up with six dogs is normal. She doesn’t understand the concept of other people not living with packs of dogs. Like, “What do you mean you don’t have six dogs in your bed at the end of the night?” She helps feed them, she helps walk them. She goes out with us.

We may have decided that we’re not going to have more dogs for a while, but I don’t know what our daughter is going to decide.

If you have a compelling story about how money comes into play in one of your relationships — whether with a partner, a friend, a sibling, a coworker, or what have you — we want to hear about it! Email alanna.okun@vox.com and karen.turner@vox.com with a little about yourself.

Welcome to Money Talks, a series in which we interview people about their relationships with money, their relationships with each other, and how those relationships inform one another.

Meet mother and daughter pair Bema, 65, and Berna Anat, 29, who live together as roomies in South San Francisco. Bema, an airline customer service agent, immigrated from the Philippines to the Bay Area when she was a teenager, where she met her husband and had three children, all while saving money where she could and never paying full price for, well, anything. 

And even though Berna, her daughter, inherited her mom’s enthusiasm for finding a deal, she still racked up $12,000 of credit card debt and $38,000 in student loan debt after attending the University of Southern California and living in New York City to pursue magazine journalism. Thankfully, this story has a happy ending: Berna now counsels women (particularly immigrant and second-gen immigrants) on personal finance through her workshops and on her site, Hey Berna. She’s also been student-debt free since 2017.

But in order to get there, she (and her partner, Peter) had to move in with her parents and live in Berna’s childhood bedroom. Bema was overjoyed to have Berna back at home — but how would it affect their relationship and Berna’s independence? And how do you eventually cut ties with your parents after they’ve given you so much? 

Bema: I told the kids when they were little, don’t be wasting money like it’s growing out of your backyard or something. They need to appreciate the value of it. So I told them a story about when I was younger, that because we were so poor, we didn’t have any kind of television. The only way I would watch TV was through my neighbor’s window. And one time when I was 9 years old, my neighbor literally closed the window in my face. 

So when I got to the United States, I just thought, someday I’m going to have a TV of my own. And sure enough, when I became an adult and got married and had my kids, we had TVs all over. The only room that doesn’t have a TV is the bathroom. 

Berna: Even if it were a tiny TV with weird-ass antennas sticking out, she’s like, “I don’t care, we’re putting a TV in the kitchen.” Growing up, I never thought it was strange and then she told me that story. It was an interesting money lesson for me; that we use money to reverse the things that happened to us in our childhood. 

Bema: When I took my kids to the Philippines for the first time, I showed them the real Philippines. I wanted them to see that they are lucky to have what they have in America. And I wanted to show them where I came from.

Berna: I also notice when my mom goes back to the Philippines, it’s almost expected of the expats to take care of everybody. You bring big boxes of stuff. You’re basically Santa Claus. It’s really interesting! When she goes to the Philippines, she’s like, “Well we gotta bring a bunch of money, and we’re going to be taking the whole neighborhood out to the water park, so I gotta save up for that.”

Bema: For my family, it’s just our way of giving back to our community back home. We want all the people back there to know we’re not forgetting them. We know where we came from, and we know that we are blessed.

We came from a poor family, so I like to spend my money wisely. It’s always been ingrained in me. For example, I don’t like to pay full price. I love going to Goodwill! And when I go to Macy’s, I don’t go to the full-price area; I always go to the clearance. I always look for sales, where my money can go further. 

Berna: She’s ruined me completely for shopping now because if a place doesn’t have a clearance rack, I’m thinking, “Why am I here? There’s no point to this.” She’s also downplaying how good she is at finding stuff on the clearance rack and at Goodwill. She’s way more fashionable than me, and she will always find the gems. I’m a very frugal shopper now because of her.

But I’ve also learned that on special occasions, you should splurge. That would be a Bema thing to do. If I had a dream prom dress in my head, she would say, “Look, how much is a dream prom dress? We’re going to make that happen.” It’s almost like we were cutting corners so that in these big moments, we could be like, “I want this dress, and I’m getting this dress.” 

And for college, for example, I could have definitely chosen to go to community college or state school, but I was very adamant about going to USC, which is a private school and so expensive. But my mom said, “If this is a thing that’s truly important to you, in your heart, then let’s figure out a way to do it. Let’s not let money hold you back from the big moments. Let’s cut corners in as many other ways as possible.”

But when I was in my mid-20s, I was living in New York City, and I was the most broke I’ve ever been in my life. I was also very stubborn about not asking my family for too much support.  But there were just moments where I thought, This is not adult anymore. I was earning a decent paycheck, but I thought, There must be some kind of habits that I’m not forming. So once I took on a new job and got a big-girl paycheck, I thought, now that money is going to be dripping like an IV into my bank account every other Friday, I’m going to start tracking my dollars. 

Bema: When you were [in your early 20s], and you were just learning how to save money — I’m telling all of her bad secrets! — but she always would overdraft [her debit card] and get charged a fee. She knows that’s her bad habit, and it would drive me nuts! I’d be like, “Look at this. The bank is taking all this money from you, and you could have spent it on a dress or something.” 

Berna: I started to journal every time I’d get a paycheck because all the apps and spreadsheets weren’t working for me. And that’s when I started to notice, Wow, I got hit with an overdraft fee three times this week. That sucks! Three overdraft fees, that can add up to $40 or $50, and I could really use that $50. Monitoring that made me realize how messed up it was that I would overlook that. 

The more I started to teach myself about personal finance, the more I started to realize how few of us get this education or that we have to wait until we’re 25 and stuck and scared to really teach ourselves the specifics. And it started to make me more angry than anything. 

My parents, they immigrated here from the Philippines and they did — and do! — so much. And our family didn’t necessarily talk about what a 401k is and how to invest. There wasn’t time. My parents were busy assimilating; they were also busy shuttling us to every single extracurricular and trying to get us as Americanized as possible. The reason I made that career change to teaching personal finance is that if it took my own struggle of learning personal finance — and I’m in many positions of privilege — to really get on top of my budgeting, how hard is it for everyone else who is not making this a priority? Or doesn’t have time to make this a priority? 

Bema: I’m so proud of her, but I still look at her like, “How did you become like that?” I used to be up your butt, asking “Why are you spending? Why are you overdrafting?” And I think she learned from that, and I’m so proud of what she’s doing now.

Berna: Another thing is that we’re also roomies. [A few years ago], I was hired by Instagram, and it meant I got to move back to the Bay Area, which I had been looking forward to doing anyway because New York City had beat me up at that point. My parents were like, “Of course, you’ll stay with us.” And I thought, “No, I’m stubborn. I want to live in an apartment.” 

Then I was living in an apartment in San Francisco, and I was like, “Wow this is actually a lot harder than I thought.” I met my partner, Peter, and we started to talk a lot about budgeting and getting ourselves out of student loan debt, asking “What kind of changes can we actually make in our lives to attack our student loan debt?” And this time my parents were like, “Hello, idiots, there’s your childhood bedroom in the house. Why are you holding out so intensely for independence?” Once I identified something that was more important to me than my independence, which was paying off those student loans, we both moved in! 

Bema: Filipino moms, we love to keep our children forever. To us, they’re still our babies. Her room is always open, even when she left it. Me and her dad really loved when she came back. I know in heart of hearts she wants to be on her own, but I know it’s very difficult in the Bay Area, and we’re happy that we were part of helping her pay off her student loan.

Berna: And we still pay rent.

Bema: I even told her not to pay rent. But she said, “Mom, we have to give you something.” 

Berna: Between me and my partner, we pay $800 for our room. Which is crazy-pants compared to paying for a room literally anywhere in the Bay Area. It’ll be like twice as much. But, of course, they were resistant. Every time we give them the rent check they go, “Hey! Stop! Stop it!” 

We’ll continue to pay rent, and my mom’s right, my partner and I will eventually get our own place. But we’re really grateful that we are really taking our time and not having to panic and pay for a really expensive spot because the Bay Area is brutal.

I would definitely do that for my kid, but I’d be like, “Where that’s rent? Where’s the contract? You’re a tenant. Here are the rules.” I’m lucky they’re being really nice, but the next generation is going to get it. 

Bema: She can have children starting today!

Berna: Sweet Jesus!

Bema: I’ve been pressuring them! I’m waiting for a baby. 

Berna: She wants little feet. Talk about things that are not in the financial plan!

Correction: Bema has three, not two, children.

If you have a compelling story about how money comes into play in one of your relationships — whether with a partner, a friend, a sibling, a coworker, or what have you — we want to hear about it! Email alanna.okun@vox.com and karen.turner@vox.com with a little about yourself.