Episode 9: New Front lines

When 3rd year med student Megh Kumar told a mentor she’d decided to go into OB GYN, she got an unexpected piece of advice: don’t.

It’s been more than a year since the Supreme Court revoked constitutional protections for abortion rights with their Dobbs decision. Since then 13 states – including Megh’s home state of Kentucky – have banned nearly all abortions. Some states have criminalized performing or abetting abortion. The effect has been chilling not only for patients who need them, but for doctors who feel it’s their medical duty to provide them.

As the next generation of doctors like Megh enter this field of medicine, many are asking themselves if it’s worth it. Abortion providers are often targets for harassment and violence, and studying in a restrictive state might limit training opportunities. Data show a more than 10% decrease in residency applications to OB GYN programs in restrictive states. If fewer doctors are training to be OB GYNs, what does that mean for the rest of us?

Learn more about how to advocate for abortion rights at WeTestify, and visit SisterSong.net for more information about reproductive justice.

Read Episode 9 Full Transcript Below

ASHLEY [VO]: I’m Ashley C Ford and this is Into the Mix, a Ben & Jerry’s Podcast about Joy and Justice, produced with Vox Creative.

[AMBIENT: CAR INTERIOR.]

ASHLEY [VO]: Megh Kumar is taking our team on a drive around her hometown: Louisville, Kentucky.

[AMBIENT: MEGH SPEAKS QUIETLY IN CAR INTERIOR, HER VOICE OBSCURED UNDER VO.]

MEGH KUMAR: [in car] It’s actually the running joke of my parents that when I was little, my dad, who loves math, would teach me math. I would do a problem and he would say, ‘touch your nose’, and I’d go like this, and then he’d say, ‘touch your nose the other way. Like, go around your head.’ I’m like, okay. And so that’s why I’m really good at this [laughs] but I touch my nose that way. He’s like, ‘you see how you wrapped your arm around your head? That’s what you’re choosing.’ And I would always choose the more complicated route to get to the answer. And so my dad’s like, ‘Oh, Meg always wants to complicate things’. [laughs]

ASHLEY [VO]: Megh doesn’t want to be the kind of doctor who looks at her patients as a set of symptoms. She sees their health as a collaborative relationship, one only built through trust.

MEGH KUMAR: [in car] Going to the gynecologist is not a pleasant experience for most people. And there’s a lot of trauma as well there. Um, a lot of people are victims of sexual violence, you know, and that’s a very private and invasive exam.

But as a gynecologist, you also have the ability and potential to create a safe space.

I always was into women’s rights and reproductive rights in general, even in high school. And then when I went to medical school, it wasn’t shocking that I ended up being really drawn to abortion care and OB GYN because a lot of OB GYN is advocating for your patients.

ASHLEY [VO]: She does not take this responsibility lightly. She intends to leave her future patients feeling understood and knowing their options.

Even as those options become more and more limited.

[MUSIC IN: GENTLE KEYS PLAY OVER A BEAT, FOLLOWED BY A WISTFUL TRUMPET.]

ASHLEY [VO]: Last year, the Dobbs decision cracked across the country like an earthquake, shifting the ground beneath the feet of doctors and patients alike. This Supreme Court case ended nearly 50 years of constitutional protection for abortion rights. The Dobbs decision ruled that it was up to states to decide if it was legal. 13 states, including Megh’s home state of Kentucky, banned abortions for nearly all patients overnight.

Megh was about to start her third year of med school at the time, which is when she would normally start training to perform abortion procedures. Just before the Dobbs decision leaked, she managed to observe one day at the EMW Women’s Surgical Center.

MEGH KUMAR: [in car] The EMW, they’re pretty selective when with who they let shadow. You know, especially if you’re a teaching hospital. They’re like, very deliberate because like, people risk a lot coming there. Patients, they’re very, very vulnerable. It’s a very volatile time for patients. So being selective with who you let in the room is really important.

ASHLEY [VO]: Kentucky only had two facilities that provided abortion at the time, which made it tricky to get training at home even when induced abortion was still legal. So Megh looked out of state for short term programs. She found one in Arizona where she not only got to observe – she assisted in performing abortion procedures at varying gestational stages.

As soon as she arrived, she noticed a stark contrast. In Arizona, she only ever saw one anti-abortion protester – quietly handing out pamphlets, way on the other end of the parking lot. It was nothing like the hostility she’d witnessed in her home state.

MEGH KUMAR: [in car] I was drawn to abortion care because, A) it’s very polarized and not a lot of people wanna do it. Not a lot of people wanna take that risk. Like, there are abortion providers that have been shot.

Luckily my parents are… they support me. Like, I don’t have to fight at every Thanksgiving or something like that. But they are concerned for my safety. they were like, ‘why do you have to do this? Like, why? You’re putting yourself and your family at risk. There are people out there that want you dead, that could want you dead, and that’s a very real threat.’ And that’s, that was a burden that I was willing to take on.

[MUSIC FADES OUT.]

[AMBIENT: BUSY STREET SOUNDS OF DOWNTOWN LOUISVILLE FADE UP.]

ASHLEY [VO]:  Megh took us to a busy street corner in downtown Louisville to show us an unassuming brick building. It’s got a concrete awning that stretches above the  sidewalk, and two bright yellow lines painting a pathway to the entrance. Something else is painted there too – the words NO TRESPASSING in big block letters.

This used to be the EMW. If we’d come a year and a half ago, we would have seen protesters standing right here; just behind the NO TRESPASSING lines, making it hard for patients to walk through the front doors. 

MEGH KUMAR: [outside on sidewalk] When people walk in, they have to deal with the protestors and the shaming, and then when they walk out, they have to deal with it again. And I just remember a patient being like, ‘I can’t, I can’t, I don’t… I don’t wanna do it. I don’t wanna walk out there. I can’t do it.’

Like, your car might be five feet away, but five feet away is quite a long distance when people are yelling at you, saying mean things to you. 

ASHLEY [VO]: Megh speaks in present tense, but of course, this facility is closed. A familiar sight in America.

PRODUCER: [outside on sidewalk] What comes up for you being here? Like what emotions or thoughts come to mind? Being here?

MEGH KUMAR: [outside on sidewalk] … I’d like to say sad, but almost jaded. Being in discussions and circles that discuss reproductive rights and fight for reproductive rights, we’ve always known it was a ‘when’ rather than an ‘if’. And the Dobbs decision was just like a ‘when’ to a ‘now’.

‘Like, okay, it’s now, it’s now. Now what?’

[AMBIENT: STREET SOUNDS FADE OUT.]

[MUSIC: LOFI BEAT WITH KEYS UNDERLAID.]

ASHLEY [VO]: Now what? That’s what reproductive rights advocates have been asking since the Dobbs decision was released.

In America, few issues are as politically inflamed as reproductive rights and access to abortion. The story goes like this: abortion used to be considered an ordinary part of medical care up into the 1800s; midwives and healers had been providing herbal remedies for unwanted pregnancies for millennia. As the medical establishment began to coalesce in the mid 1800s, male doctors wanted reproductive medicine to be more strictly regulated. Some historians argue that their goal was to sow public distrust of midwives, and making abortion illegal was a tactic to medicalize birthing. By the early 1900s abortion was banned in every state. This pushed the procedure underground, causing untold numbers of unwanted pregnancies and death. Then reproductive rights advocates fought to repeal abortion bans. They argued that individuals not only had the right to life-saving medical care in the event of an emergency, but should also have the right to choose whether to carry a pregnancy to term. 1973, the Supreme Court decided that abortion was legal in their landmark Roe v Wade case. They ruled that the right to privacy guaranteed by the 14th amendment also protected abortion. What followed was 50 years of right-wing backlash, and strategic legislation to make it very difficult for patients to access abortion care. Legislation like the Hyde Amendment, which made it illegal to fund abortion care with federal dollars. So Medicaid, for instance, couldn’t offer coverage, which forced low-income patients to pay for the procedure out of pocket. Such restrictions usually put a disproportionate burden on poor people of color. Finally, in June of last year, with a Supreme Court stacked with conservative justices, the Dobbs decision upended 50 years of abortion rights virtually overnight. This is how a medical procedure that more than 60% of Americans want legalized is banned, and in some cases criminalized.

In the months following the Dobbs decision, stories came out of restrictive states like Texas, Idaho, and Ohio. Fearing prosecution, hospitals started denying care for non-viable pregnancies and prolonged miscarriages.

The landscape Megh is entering is one of scarcity and confusion. For people seeking abortions, of course, but also for those who feel it is their medical duty to provide them. Like Megh said, abortion providers are targeted for harassment, stalking, and outright violence from anti-abortion activists. And that’s still the case. The difference is that at least abortion was legal then. Now, depending on where you live, your elected officials might try to charge you with murder for performing abortion.

So what are the long term impacts of this going to be? Not just the immediate aftermath of doctors and patients adapting to new restrictions? An entire generation of med students are asking themselves if this work is worth the risk.

If the outcome of the Dobbs decision is driving doctors away, how will that affect the rest of us? And what does the path forward look like, when even legal protection wasn’t enough to ensure equal access to abortion in the first place?

Let’s get into it.

[MUSIC: TRANSITION TO THEME]

[THEME]

ASHLEY [VO]: Megh invited us into her home in Louisville on a hot August day.  She insisted on making our  team cups of tea, despite the heat, saying her Russian mother raised her with the value of hospitality.  We were lucky to get the time with her in between clinic rotations and studying for her board exam.

Don’t let her measured tone fool you. She gets giddy when asked about her chosen field:

MEGH KUMAR: I had a resident tell me that ‘when you’re choosing a specialty, you need to find your people. And I’m not talking about your co-residents, I’m not talking about your attendings, I’m talking about your patients. When you are 80 hours in, when you’re working overtime, who are you gonna get up for and rally for? Who are you going to root for? Who are you going to unconditionally love?’

And that’s… this is the patient population that I unconditionally love, and I will never, ever get bored or tired advocating for them or wanting to help them or providing services for them.

ASHLEY [VO]: Despite her passion, Megh has been advised by mentors and attendings to choose a different field of medicine.

MEGH KUMAR:  They’re like, “don’t go in OB, don’t go in OB. You’re not gonna be able to help patients that much ‘cause your hands are gonna be tied behind your back by the law, or you’re gonna go to prison.”

[MUSIC: SYNTHS AND KEYS PULSE WITH AN URGENT TONE.]

ASHLEY [VO]: We’re already seeing the ways Dobbs has impacted med students’ interest in reproductive medicine. Abortion is just as much a part of an OB GYN’s education as a pelvic exam.  All accredited OB GYN programs  have to train practitioners on how to perform abortions, which involves observing and assisting in the procedure. Students can opt out for religious exemption, and of course not all OB GYNs are required to do them once they’re licensed. But the expectation is that an OB GYN knows how to provide abortions, and how to handle potential complications. So abortion bans will make it harder to get a complete education. One survey found that 58% percent of OB GYN students would not consider residency programs in restrictive states – which could be a problem because about 1 in 5 OB GYN programs are located in states where abortion is banned.

There are different types of abortion procedures, depending on how far along the pregnancy is. So states where induced abortion is legal just equals more training opportunities. The reverse is also true. In Kentucky for instance, most abortions are not only illegal but criminalized. All abortions have to be deemed “medically necessary”, and even then only if the pregnant person is in danger. Doctors who perform abortions on quote unquote “viable fetuses” can be charged with class c felony, and land up to 10 years in prison. So that just limits the number of training opportunities students could get in Kentucky.

Even practicing gynecologists are feeling the strain of Dobbs’ limitations. One survey found that 6 out of 10 OB GYNs in restrictive states felt they’d lost medical authority in their decision-making. And 5 in 10 felt they were offering a lower standard of care because of it.

Add to this the fact that some states have laws requiring doctors to share medically inaccurate information with patients about things like fetus pain or supposed lasting impacts – that can be a pretty uncomfortable thing for doctors to have to do. Add also the high potential for social stigma, and the increased scrutiny from hospitals to make sure you’re not breaking the law by making a medical judgment.

Since they cannot provide comprehensive care under these conditions, it makes sense that med students might opt out and go into another field instead. Makes sense to Megh, too.

[MUSIC FADES OUT.]

MEGH KUMAR: I do understand how people do get burnt out and tired because it’s exhausting. Like the job itself, it is so emotionally draining. And not even to think about work hours.

Like, even outside of abortion care, being a physician is difficult. Being in healthcare is difficult. People die. I wouldn’t say that’s uncommon, depending on your field. It’s hard. It takes a lot. And I was like… you gotta do what you gotta do. 

ASHLEY [VO]:  One year after the Dobbs decision, there’s been more than a 10% decrease  in the number of med students applying to OB GYN programs in restrictive states, and a 5% decrease nation wide – even as multiple states report OB GYN shortages.

The American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists projects that at this rate, by the year 2050, the US will be short 22 thousand OB GYNs.

So here we have a specialty that’s in high demand, but a social and political climate that is pushing young people away from entering the field. Assuming trends continue, the OB GYN shortages will only get worse, potentially making their services harder to access.

Well, what do we mean when we say ‘access’?

From a patient’s perspective, access can mean a lot of things. Obviously, there’s legal access - is it legal in my state, or do I have to go somewhere else? Nowadays, do I run the risk of prosecution even if I get an abortion in another state?

There’s logistical access - does my insurance cover it, or do I have to pay out of pocket? If I have to go out of state, can I get the time off work? Can I get childcare? Do I have enough gas, or a car to borrow?

Access can even be more nebulous than all that - will I have to walk through a crowd of protesters? Will the doctor judge me? Can I tell my family/friends/partner?

That’s all just on the patient side.

And I think it’s worth considering what access might mean from a doctor’s perspective - is this abortion really medically necessary for this patient, or am I risking my license, and years in prison, by giving this recommendation? Will my friends and family judge me for doing this work? Do I feel confident in my training to perform this procedure?

Even doctors who believe in abortion rights and want to be able to provide this care may, as Megh says, feel like they have their hands tied.

MEGH KUMAR: Yeah, it was a legitimate fear of mine. Um, not being able to help patients because of the law. Like, providers shouldn’t have to tiptoe around laws to provide care. Like, there shouldn’t be women in the ICU in Texas because there’s still fetal heart tones.

ASHLEY: Right.

MEGH KUMAR: There shouldn’t be people who are forced to carry to term with fetal anomalies that are incompatible with life. And I just, can you imagine? Like the fetus does not have a brain, and people are coming up to you, touching your belly. Like, “Oh, what are you expecting? What are you expecting? When are you due?” Like, can you imagine the trauma, the grief, the sorrow? And people like… are okay with that? And that’s acceptable to people?

ASHLEY: It’s devastating. It’s devastating to think about.

MEGH KUMAR: And people don’t like to think about that, or don’t think about that, but that’s a reality for some people

[MUSIC: ELECTRIC GUITAR STRUMMING HOPEFUL, MINIMAL NOTES.]

ASHLEY [VO]: So who will bear the brunt of this? Who stands to lose the most now that a fundamental right is no longer guaranteed?

DEJA FOXX: This disproportionately affects low-income, Black and brown people.

ASHLEY [VO]: Deja Foxx is a reproductive rights activist once called the “New Face of Planned Parenthood”.

DEJA FOXX: When Roe fell, there were so many people who just said, you know, “I can’t believe it. I’m so surprised. How could they take this away? How could they roll this back?” When in truth, for so many women, particularly low-income women, particularly women of color, across this country, abortion was never accessible to them. As abortion has moved out of its legal status and into a criminalized one, the people who will bear the brunt of that criminalization are those same Black and brown people.

And so in my mind, I see this as an opportunity for coalition building. When I look at this moment and the fall of Roe, I think the opportunity we are being given is to ask ourselves, what does it look like to center accessibility?

ASHLEY [VO]: When we come back, we look ahead to a radical future of reproductive justice.

[MUSIC FADES OUT AND TRANSITIONS TO MIDROLL.]

[MIDROLL]

RENEE: I’m Renee Bracey Sherman, I’m a reproductive justice activist and co-founder of the organization We Testify. Most Americans believe abortion should be legal, available, and supported, but when you’ve done this work for as long as I have you start to notice an all-too-common phrase – “I’m pro choice, but…”

“I’m pro choice, but… only in the early stages of pregnancy.”

“I’m pro choice, but… shouldn’t they have been on birth control?”

“I’m pro choice, but… why do you have to be so loud about it?”

Sound familiar?

Abortion has been so stigmatized in this country that even allies sometimes have a hard time giving full-throated support to people who have abortions.

The reality is that everyone loves someone who’s had an abortion—including you. Yes you! And if you think you don’t , it might be because they don’t feel safe telling you their story.

That’s why I founded We Testify. Our organization is dedicated to rewriting the script by elevating the stories of people who have abortions. By sharing abortion stories, we are building empathy and shifting how we all think about abortion. We also provide resources to help people facilitate transformative conversations, and to identify anti-abortion stigma in themselves.

To learn more about We Testify, go to prochoicebut.org. There you’ll find resources to help you start the conversation with your friends and family. You can also share your own abortion stories.

We unapologetically support anyone’s decision to have an abortion at any time for any reason, and we believe that everyone who’s had an abortion deserves to be loved and uplifted in their experiences.

Again, that’s prochoicebut.org to learn more.

[MIDROLL CONCLUDES]

ASHLEY [VO]: So this is where we are now: a new generation of doctors is being pushed away to other fields, and out of states that need them most. Pregnant and birthing people are at higher risk for serious harm now that this vital healthcare is criminalized in some places.

But even if we waved a magic wand and everything went back to how it was before the Dobbs decision, would that even be enough?

DEJA FOXX: It doesn’t matter if you have a legal right if you cannot access it.

So much of US policy is based around a sense of merit and morality. That you have to work hard enough and be a good enough person to deserve this basic right.

Whether that be your housing, or your food, or your access to healthcare. You somehow have to prove that you are upstanding enough, “American Dream” enough to deserve care.

Abortion is healthcare, right? It is medical care. We know that, but if you can pay for it, then you can have control over your body. And that to me is just such a failing.

ASHLEY [VO]: Deja says she didn’t choose to fight for reproductive rights - the choice was made for her out of necessity.

DEJA FOXX: I grew up in a single-parent, single-mom household and government housing, government support, food stamps, all that. When I was 15, I had moved out of my mom’s house, experienced issues of homelessness.

I remember one of my first savings goals when I got a job at the gas station when I was in high school was to save enough if I needed to have an abortion. I don’t really know. In my head it was like, I think I probably need like $500 just in case. I mean, there was no safety net for me. I was a teenager living with my boyfriend because I had to, I was using birth control. I had like, spotty access to it, at best. Like, I was in a precarious spot.

ASHLEY [VO]: Deja’s story is a perfect example of what we mean when we talk about access. When she was a teenager, was contraception legal? yes. Abortion? yes. But were those things accessible to her? Maybe, just barely, depending on the whims of her elected officials.

DEJA FOXX: When I was 16 I stood up to my senator at the time because he had voted to repeal funding for the program under which I was able to receive birth control at no cost to me as a teenager with no parents, no insurance, and no money.

And so I asked him why he, as a white man, was making decisions about me and my body, and he told me he supports policies that support the American Dream.

[MUSIC: DEFIANT KEYS, SYNTHS, AND VOCALS.]

ASHLEY [VO]: This is the moment that radicalized Deja, and earned her the moniker “The New Face of Planned Parenthood.” And it’s when Deja realized that her reproductive freedom was not guaranteed, even when Roe was still the law of the land. Legal abortion was just one part of the movement for reproductive justice.

DEJA FOXX: Reproductive justice is a framework that was brought to us in the nineties by women of color who came together and said, ‘the framework we have been using, which prioritizes the legality of abortion is not a framework that centers us and our experiences.’

ASHLEY [VO]: The women behind the reproductive justice movement are still thought leaders today. They were fed up with mainstream feminism assuming that legal protections for abortion were enough – without considering the very real limitations that people would have depending on their income, education, immigration status, and where they lived. They argued that “there is no choice when there is no access.” Fighting for the right for everyone to choose their own reproductive destiny would also mean fighting against poverty, racism, and structural inequities that contributed to unwanted pregnancies and maternal health crises. In other words, reproductive justice is also racial justice.

People of color have unequal access to family planning resources, like contraception and comprehensive sex ed. Black and indigenous people are two to three times more likely to have life-threatening complications in pregnancy, and less likely to have quality health insurance. Black and Hispanic people are as much as three times more likely to seek abortions than their white counterparts, and more likely to live in states where the procedure is banned and criminalized. So there’s greater need for – and less access to – reproductive care in communities also disproportionately impacted by racism and poverty.

[MUSIC FADES OUT.]

So what would reproductive justice actually look like? Megh has some ideas. She’s seen firsthand the immense toll that poverty takes on pregnant and postpartum people.

MEGH KUMAR: Reproductive justice means to me that people can choose when they want to have children and have the ability to have children safely,

ASHLEY: Mm-hmm.

MEGH KUMAR: and to have the social support to be able to care for said child. It can be as simple as maternal leave. Right?

Who gets to stay home and take care of the infant? Who gets time off work? Who needs to work? Do they feel like they need to go to work despite not being safe and potentially causing harm? And a lot of people that aren’t financially secure will need to go back to work and they won’t take time off. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve had food insecurity in a pregnant person or a postpartum person. You know, like we’re not providing food to people.

ASHLEY: Yeah.

MEGH KUMAR: Like, these people don’t have food and that’s not justice to me. This is just, again, just a fraction of what is required to be “reproductively just”, I guess would be the word. And that’s not being met.

DEJA FOXX: It’s the idea that we should be able to decide if, and when, to have children. But not only that, but that we should be able to raise those children in healthy and safe communities, right? Communities that are free from policing, that are free from the threat of climate change. You should have Access to affordable housing, dignified work, and you should be able to live a full life and choose the vocation of mother if you want. And that your child should be safe to live in this world.

I think those are particular concerns of women of color and Black women, and that was at the center of this idea.

ASHLEY [VO]: Deja’s vision for the future is one where abortion is not only legal, but things like contraception, postpartum care, and child care are not luxuries. Where there’s equal access to quality healthcare. Where health care providers can confidently practice medicine without fear. Where every child is raised in neighborhoods with clean air and clean water; with well-funded schools, free from violence and over-policing.

She knows these are ambitious goals that will take time, money, and oh, a couple of major paradigm shifts to make reality.

So in the meantime, in this current state of reproductive rights, she wants people to think about real, tangible ways we can increase universal access to reproductive care right now.

DEJA FOXX: I think that one of the most important things we can do in the face of these new restrictions is to become an asset to our community members. Creating resources in one another that can’t be taken away come election season or with one appointment of a judge.  

Educate yourself on the laws surrounding abortion, birth control, access, sex education in your local community. Educate yourself on those. Make sure that if someone comes to you and asks that you know where to point them or that you have the answers. Sign up for a training on self-medicated abortion.

ASHLEY [VO]: When Deja says self-medicated abortions, she’s talking about medication that can induce miscarriage, which can be an option for people in early stages of pregnancy. Immediately after Dobbs, “abortion pills now” became a rallying cry for activists, including Deja. She likes this as an option because they can be mailed discreetly, which can be helpful for folks who live hours away from an abortion clinic, or even the nearest OB GYN.

It’s not without risks, though. Medication-induced abortions  are illegal in 14 states, including Kentucky. Some states, like Alabama, will prosecute people for taking them.

But this is what Deja means when she talks about making sure people have access to this healthcare, even if the legality might be in question.

DEJA FOXX:  It’s about saying that absolutely everyone, regardless of how much money they make, or where they live, or who their family is, or the color of their skin – that they have access to the care they need to take control of their bodies and their future.

Legality is the floor. Roe was the floor. It was never the ceiling. You know, it left us complacent saying, ‘well, we have the legal right to abortion in all 50 states’, when it doesn’t matter if you have a legal right if you cannot access it.

It’s about saying that, we’re not gonna just stop when – when, because, not if, but when – we get the legal right to abortion back, we are gonna  put access at the center of our movement.

ASHLEY [VO]: Meg gets it, but she worries about the legal and medical risks.

MEGH KUMAR: The thing is abortions are very safe. Abortion is safer than pregnancy. The difference is you can get care when you’re pregnant in all states, but abortions, you can’t.

My fear with that ‘abortion pills now’ is that a lot of people are going to… not be cautiously informed of what is normal, what is abnormal, when you need to go to the emergency room. And if showing up to the emergency room, will that get you in trouble?

So it’s hard. Like ‘abortion pills now’ is a great rallying cry, but I still think that legality, and fighting for legality, and pushing for legality needs to be still on the front burner. It can’t be placed on a back burner.

[MUSIC: DISTANT, MELANCHOLIC TRUMPET PLAYS OVER GENTLE PIANO.]

ASHLEY [VO]: Megh and Deja both know that true reproductive justice isn’t about deciding what’s more important, access or legality – it’s about building a future where neither are in question.

The road ahead is long and arduous. But it’s also worth it because, as Deja says, she knows what’s at stake.

DEJA FOXX: I know that there is a younger version of myself out there right now who deserves bodily autonomy. Who deserves to control her body, who deserves to have her potential protected.

And you know, I may never meet her. I may never know her. But I still feel it is my responsibility, and in some ways my privilege, to fight for her.

ASHLEY [VO]: I feel so inspired talking to these young women. I’m sure you might, too. And I think there’s a temptation to look at this issue, feel overwhelmed by the scale of it, and ultimately rest assured that at least there are incredible young people who are up for the fight. I think the temptation is there with any looming social issue, like climate change or criminal justice reform. It feels good to look at younger generations and feel relieved by their passion and energy.

But we can’t do that. We can’t rest in that warm fuzzy feeling for too long.

We – you and I – we all have work to do to build a just future.

And Megh has her work to do, too.

[MUSIC FADES OUT.]

[AMBIENT: SOUNDS OF PEN ON PAPER AND TYPING ON A LAPTOP, MEGH IS STUDYING.]

ASHLEY [VO]: It’s the beginning of Megh’s 4th year of med school. Now is the time to start applying to residency programs, and decide where she’ll spend the next 4 years.

Like thousands of other OB GYN students, Megh is considering her options, thinking about where she can freely learn and practice medicine.

[AMBIENT: STUDYING SOUNDS FADE OUT.]

If you’d asked her in her second year where she’d want to go, she’d  have told you she intended to stay here in Louisville.

MEGH KUMAR: Being a local, people respect you more. Like, ‘oh, you’re a local!’ it’s like, ‘yeah, I’m a local girl! I am.’

This is the patient population that I want to help, and that very much needs more providers. Like, Kentucky in general just needs more providers. There’s so much inequity and miseducation in this field, and I have the opportunity to rewrite that. And I have the opportunity to actually establish a healthy and productive bond with my patients, and give them the information they need to make decisions for themselves and to be autonomous

ASHLEY: Do you think staying in Kentucky will limit your ability to practice medicine?

MEGH KUMAR: … As of right now, yeah.

ASHLEY: Yeah.

MEGH KUMAR: … As of right now… Yeah.

ASHLEY: Mm-hmm.

MEGH KUMAR: My safety, my abilities are definitely restricted.

ASHLEY: Can you talk to me a little bit about your feelings on being the next generation of reproductive healthcare-givers? Like, do you feel like you’ve inherited a broken system?

MEGH KUMAR: Yes, but I don’t think… Like, it was broken before. I think it’s messier for sure, but it has never been put together, if that makes sense. Like I think that we’re several steps behind where we used to be, but it still wasn’t great.

We’ve always been fighting. Like it’s not something that’s new, it’s just a new fight, and so I have no issues. I don’t have any qualms with having to pick it up again.

It’ll be worth it in the long haul.

ASHLEY [VO]: As of now Megh’s looking into 60 programs in 26 states. She still has a decision to make. But she knows that she’ll always feel the call to come home.

The fight for reproductive justice starts at home. Talk to your family and friends about abortion rights. Educate yourself about the laws in your state. Listen, learn, and help change the conversation.

For more information, visit wetestify.org.

[CREDITS]

Into the Mix is a Ben & Jerry’s Podcast produced by Vox Creative.

This episode was written by Bethany Denton.

The Vox Creative team includes Lead Producer Bethany Denton, Production Supervisor Taylor Henry, and Production Coordinator Jessica Bae. Martha D. Salley is our supervising producer, and Annu Subramanian is our executive producer.

The team also includes Ariana Jiffo, senior manager of creative services, Design Director Brittany Falussy, and post-production stars Greg Russ and Andrew Hammond.

Kyle Neal engineered this episode. Original music by Israel Tutson.

Thanks also to Ekemini Ekpo and Stephanie Zamarripa and to Arianne Young for her support.

The Ben & Jerry’s team includes Jay Tandon, Jay Curley, Sanjana Mahesh, Chris Miller, and Palika Makam.

Next month, we’re headed to the first city in the south to approve reparations for Black residents

I’m Ashley C. Ford. Thank you for listening.