The Gray Area
The Gray Area with Sean Illing takes a philosophy-minded look at culture, technology, politics, and the world of ideas. Each week, we invite a guest to explore a question or topic that matters. From the state of democracy, to the struggle with depression and anxiety, to the nature of identity in the digital age, each episode looks for nuance and honesty in the most important conversations of our time.
New episodes drop every Monday.
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And one that provides hope for our collective future.


On a live episode of The Ezra Klein Show, Melinda Gates shared the books she thinks everyone should read.


“If you [only] have products created by white guys in their 20s, you’re gonna miss the mark.”


Toward a more honest conversation about guns — one that takes identity into account.


The interview will be Sunday, March 11, at 3:30 pm CT. Not in Austin? Watch via live stream.


Kennedy thrilled Democrats with his State of the Union response. But what comes next?


“Technology feels disempowering because we haven’t built it around an honest view of human nature,” says tech critic Tristan Harris.


Ever wondered what Richard Feynman was like on acid? Lanier can tell you.


“One thing I worry about on the left is forgetting that we need to persuade others.”


How Trump is playing into North Korea’s hands — and making war more likely.


Books to better understand Trump, to defend yourself from information overload, to imagine the future.


A top Doug Jones staffer explains the Alabama win.


“People will jump on any excuse to make this conversation stop.”


The Nobel Prize-winning economist on deficits, net neutrality, tax reform, single-payer, a UBI, and much more.


“I think these things don’t tend to happen peacefully,” says Coates.


“I think we have to increase our shame — and I don’t think shame is a bad thing.”


“Money slithers through Washington like a snake...the influence is everywhere.”


The “Deep Work” author on focusing on what matters, regaining your “cognitive fitness,” and taking control of your time.


“My whole approach to the Trump era is to act as if reality matters.”


The war on drugs, basic incomes, Trump, cashless societies, superhero movies, NATO, geoengineering, transhumanism, and more.


“It’s not because I overestimate the AI. It’s because most people tend to overestimate human beings.”


This is a podcast the Trump administration should listen to.


Among our topics: why Ferriss fills his home with reminders of his eventual death.


What kind of mind creates a book like Sapiens? A clear one.


“[Trump] is a man who is not really fit to be president.”


The author of Hillbilly Elegy on why Trump won, how elites helped, and what we miss about social mobility.


The DNC chair frontrunner’s vision for Democrats: turnout, turnout, turnout.


Fewer companies control way more market share than at any point since the dawn of the Progressive Era.


Coates on Obama, Trump, atheism, and becoming the guy “white people read to show they know something.”

Now including the recommendations of Hillary Clinton, Malcolm Gladwell, and Jesse Eisenberg.


“I think this election year has suggested that maybe we were just lucky.”

An interview with the New Yorker writer about his youthful rebellion as a Canadian William F. Buckley.

The New Yorker writer and surgeon joins The Ezra Klein Show to explain why our idea of failure is so wrong.


The Daily Show host on how to find humor in tragedy, what Obama’s election didn’t change about race in America, and the best advice he’s ever received.


“The political class of the Republican Party has had a view of its own voters that has been an error.”


Impossible Foods’ Patrick Brown joins The Ezra Klein Show to talk about his company’s new veggie burger.


“This is absolutely the fight as demographic change helps America fulfill its destiny as a people.”


“When Jews were hungry in America they accomplished a lot.”


“I don’t think I was fully prepared for how much I would blame myself for not knowing how to handle a really chaotic world.”


Moby: “Where do they go to make art or make music and not have to worry about the rent?”