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The Gray Area

The Gray Area with Sean Illing takes a philosophy-minded look at culture, technology, politics, and the world of ideas. Each week, we invite a guest to explore a question or topic that matters. From the state of democracy, to the struggle with depression and anxiety, to the nature of identity in the digital age, each episode looks for nuance and honesty in the most important conversations of our time.

New episodes drop every Monday.

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Podcasts
New Orleans Mayor Mitch Landrieu recommends 3 books that illuminate America’s history of racial inequalityNew Orleans Mayor Mitch Landrieu recommends 3 books that illuminate America’s history of racial inequality
Podcast
Podcasts

And one that provides hope for our collective future.

By Emily Heller
Podcasts
Melinda Gates recommends 3 books that changed the way she thinks about the worldMelinda Gates recommends 3 books that changed the way she thinks about the world
Podcast
Podcasts

On a live episode of The Ezra Klein Show, Melinda Gates shared the books she thinks everyone should read.

By Emily Heller
The Gray Area
Melinda Gates on diversity in tech, ending malaria, and the problems money can’t solveMelinda Gates on diversity in tech, ending malaria, and the problems money can’t solve
Podcast
The Gray Area

“If you [only] have products created by white guys in their 20s, you’re gonna miss the mark.”

By Ezra Klein
The Gray Area
Here’s how carrying a gun changes how you see the worldHere’s how carrying a gun changes how you see the world
Podcast
The Gray Area

Toward a more honest conversation about guns — one that takes identity into account.

By Ezra Klein
The Gray Area
Vox’s Ezra Klein will interview Melinda Gates at SXSWVox’s Ezra Klein will interview Melinda Gates at SXSW
Play
The Gray Area

The interview will be Sunday, March 11, at 3:30 pm CT. Not in Austin? Watch via live stream.

By Rachel Wolfe
The Gray Area
This isn’t Joe Kennedy’s grandfather’s Democratic Party, and he knows itThis isn’t Joe Kennedy’s grandfather’s Democratic Party, and he knows it
Podcast
The Gray Area

Kennedy thrilled Democrats with his State of the Union response. But what comes next?

By Ezra Klein
The Gray Area
How technology is designed to bring out the worst in usHow technology is designed to bring out the worst in us
Podcast
The Gray Area

“Technology feels disempowering because we haven’t built it around an honest view of human nature,” says tech critic Tristan Harris.

By Ezra Klein
The Gray Area
You will love this conversation with Jaron Lanier, but I can’t describe itYou will love this conversation with Jaron Lanier, but I can’t describe it
Podcast
The Gray Area

Ever wondered what Richard Feynman was like on acid? Lanier can tell you.

By Ezra Klein
The Gray Area
Pod Save America’s Jon Favreau on Trump’s “shitshow,” the GOP’s “rot,” and the left’s failuresPod Save America’s Jon Favreau on Trump’s “shitshow,” the GOP’s “rot,” and the left’s failures
Podcast
The Gray Area

“One thing I worry about on the left is forgetting that we need to persuade others.”

By Ezra Klein
The Gray Area
Trump has given North Korea “the greatest gift ever”Trump has given North Korea “the greatest gift ever”
Podcast
The Gray Area

How Trump is playing into North Korea’s hands — and making war more likely.

By Ezra Klein
The Gray Area
The best books of 2017, according to Ezra KleinThe best books of 2017, according to Ezra Klein
Podcast
The Gray Area

Books to better understand Trump, to defend yourself from information overload, to imagine the future.

By Ezra Klein
The Gray Area
The inside story of Doug Jones’s win in AlabamaThe inside story of Doug Jones’s win in Alabama
Podcast
The Gray Area

A top Doug Jones staffer explains the Alabama win.

By Ezra Klein
The Gray Area
Rebecca Traister on the coming #MeToo backlashRebecca Traister on the coming #MeToo backlash
Podcast
The Gray Area

“People will jump on any excuse to make this conversation stop.”

By Ezra Klein
The Gray Area
Ezra Klein interviews Paul KrugmanEzra Klein interviews Paul Krugman
Podcast
The Gray Area

The Nobel Prize-winning economist on deficits, net neutrality, tax reform, single-payer, a UBI, and much more.

By Ezra Klein
The Gray Area
Ta-Nehisi Coates is not here to comfort youTa-Nehisi Coates is not here to comfort you
Podcast
The Gray Area

“I think these things don’t tend to happen peacefully,” says Coates.

By Ezra Klein
The Gray Area
Bryan Stevenson explains how it feels to grow up black amid Confederate monumentsBryan Stevenson explains how it feels to grow up black amid Confederate monuments
Podcast
The Gray Area

“I think we have to increase our shame — and I don’t think shame is a bad thing.”

By Ezra Klein
The Gray Area
Elizabeth Warren: Obama was wrong. The system is more rigged than you know.Elizabeth Warren: Obama was wrong. The system is more rigged than you know.
Podcast
The Gray Area

“Money slithers through Washington like a snake...the influence is everywhere.”

By Ezra Klein
The Gray Area
Cal Newport on taking your life back from technologyCal Newport on taking your life back from technology
Podcast
The Gray Area

The “Deep Work” author on focusing on what matters, regaining your “cognitive fitness,” and taking control of your time.

By Ezra Klein
The Gray Area
Chris Hayes on escaping the “doom loop” of Trump’s presidencyChris Hayes on escaping the “doom loop” of Trump’s presidency
Podcast
The Gray Area

“My whole approach to the Trump era is to act as if reality matters.”

By Sean Illing
The Gray Area
What Tyler Cowen thinks of pretty much everythingWhat Tyler Cowen thinks of pretty much everything
Podcast
The Gray Area

The war on drugs, basic incomes, Trump, cashless societies, superhero movies, NATO, geoengineering, transhumanism, and more.

By Ezra Klein
The Gray Area
Yuval Harari on why humans won’t dominate Earth in 300 yearsYuval Harari on why humans won’t dominate Earth in 300 years
Podcast
The Gray Area

“It’s not because I overestimate the AI. It’s because most people tend to overestimate human beings.”

By Ezra Klein
The Gray Area
Denis McDonough was Obama’s chief of staff from 2013 to 2017. Here’s what he learned.Denis McDonough was Obama’s chief of staff from 2013 to 2017. Here’s what he learned.
Podcast
The Gray Area

This is a podcast the Trump administration should listen to.

By Ezra Klein
The Gray Area
Tim Ferriss on suffering, psychedelics, and spiritualityTim Ferriss on suffering, psychedelics, and spirituality
Podcast
The Gray Area

Among our topics: why Ferriss fills his home with reminders of his eventual death.

By Ezra Klein
The Gray Area
Yuval Harari, author of Sapiens, on how meditation made him a better historianYuval Harari, author of Sapiens, on how meditation made him a better historian
Podcast
The Gray Area

What kind of mind creates a book like Sapiens? A clear one.

By Ezra Klein
The Gray Area
Elizabeth Drew covered Watergate. Here’s what she thinks of Trump.Elizabeth Drew covered Watergate. Here’s what she thinks of Trump.
Podcast
The Gray Area

“[Trump] is a man who is not really fit to be president.”

By Ezra Klein
The Gray Area
A conversation with J.D. Vance, the reluctant interpreter of TrumpismA conversation with J.D. Vance, the reluctant interpreter of Trumpism
Podcast
The Gray Area

The author of Hillbilly Elegy on why Trump won, how elites helped, and what we miss about social mobility.

By Ezra Klein
Politics
Keith Ellison on his DNC vision, the Democrats’ down-ballot collapse, and identity politicsKeith Ellison on his DNC vision, the Democrats’ down-ballot collapse, and identity politics
Podcast
Politics

The DNC chair frontrunner’s vision for Democrats: turnout, turnout, turnout.

By Ezra Klein
Politics
A law professor’s warning: we are closer to oligopoly than at any point in 100 yearsA law professor’s warning: we are closer to oligopoly than at any point in 100 years
Podcast
Politics

Fewer companies control way more market share than at any point since the dawn of the Progressive Era.

By Jeff Stein
Politics
Ta-Nehisi Coates: “I’m a big believer in chaos”Ta-Nehisi Coates: “I’m a big believer in chaos”
Podcast
Politics

Coates on Obama, Trump, atheism, and becoming the guy “white people read to show they know something.”

By Ezra Klein
The ultimate wonk reading list: 67 books The Ezra Klein Show guests want you to read
Podcast
Culture

Now including the recommendations of Hillary Clinton, Malcolm Gladwell, and Jesse Eisenberg.

By Jeff Stein
The Gray Area
Francis Fukuyama: America is in “one of the most severe political crises I have experienced”Francis Fukuyama: America is in “one of the most severe political crises I have experienced”
Podcast
The Gray Area

“I think this election year has suggested that maybe we were just lucky.”

By Ezra Klein
At 15, Malcolm Gladwell ran a zine called Ad Hominem: “our rule was you had to attack someone personally”
Podcast
Podcasts

An interview with the New Yorker writer about his youthful rebellion as a Canadian William F. Buckley.

By Ezra Klein
Atul Gawande: for the first time in human history, ineptitude is a bigger problem than ignorance
Podcast
Politics

The New Yorker writer and surgeon joins The Ezra Klein Show to explain why our idea of failure is so wrong.

By Jeff Stein
Politics
Trevor Noah: a very serious conversation with a very funny manTrevor Noah: a very serious conversation with a very funny man
Podcast
Politics

The Daily Show host on how to find humor in tragedy, what Obama’s election didn’t change about race in America, and the best advice he’s ever received.

By Ezra Klein
Politics
Conservative intellectual Yuval Levin on how the Republican Party lost its wayConservative intellectual Yuval Levin on how the Republican Party lost its way
Podcast
Politics

“The political class of the Republican Party has had a view of its own voters that has been an error.”

By Ezra Klein
Podcasts
Why this “bloody” veggie burger may become the Tesla of foodWhy this “bloody” veggie burger may become the Tesla of food
Podcast
Podcasts

Impossible Foods’ Patrick Brown joins The Ezra Klein Show to talk about his company’s new veggie burger.

By Katie Hicks and Jeff Stein
Politics
“This is the fight”: Demos’s Heather McGhee on the upside to Trump’s racial politics“This is the fight”: Demos’s Heather McGhee on the upside to Trump’s racial politics
Podcast
Politics

“This is absolutely the fight as demographic change helps America fulfill its destiny as a people.”

By Jeff Stein
Culture
Jewish Americans are more successful than ever. Jesse Eisenberg worries something’s being lost.Jewish Americans are more successful than ever. Jesse Eisenberg worries something’s being lost.
Podcast
Culture

“When Jews were hungry in America they accomplished a lot.”

By Jeff Stein
Podcasts
What feminist author Jessica Valenti wishes she could tell her 15-year-old self about sexismWhat feminist author Jessica Valenti wishes she could tell her 15-year-old self about sexism
Podcast
Podcasts

“I don’t think I was fully prepared for how much I would blame myself for not knowing how to handle a really chaotic world.”

By Jeff Stein
Culture
Moby lived in an abandoned warehouse in his 20s. Why he worries today’s young artists can’t.Moby lived in an abandoned warehouse in his 20s. Why he worries today’s young artists can’t.
Podcast
Culture

Moby: “Where do they go to make art or make music and not have to worry about the rent?”

By Jeff Stein