Skip to main content

The Gray Area

The Gray Area with Sean Illing takes a philosophy-minded look at culture, technology, politics, and the world of ideas. Each week, we invite a guest to explore a question or topic that matters. From the state of democracy, to the struggle with depression and anxiety, to the nature of identity in the digital age, each episode looks for nuance and honesty in the most important conversations of our time.

New episodes drop every Monday.

Follow: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | TuneIn | Amazon Music | All apps

Ending the age of animal cruelty
Podcast
Future Perfect

Billions of animals die each year for our plates. What if they didn’t have to?

By Ezra Klein
The Gray Area
The 9 podcast interviews I learned the most from in 2018The 9 podcast interviews I learned the most from in 2018
Podcast
The Gray Area

Michael Pollan, N.K. Jemisin, Sam Harris, and more: The conversations that shaped my thinking in 2018.

By Ezra Klein
13 of Vox’s best podcast episodes of 2018
Podcast
Podcasts

Everything you need to get through the holidays.

By Byrd Pinkerton
The Gray Area
What Nate Silver’s learned about forecasting electionsWhat Nate Silver’s learned about forecasting elections
Podcast
The Gray Area

The FiveThirtyEight founder talks with Ezra Klein about who will win in 2018 — and how to think about 2020.

By Ezra Klein
The Gray Area
Is the media making American politics worse?Is the media making American politics worse?
Podcast
The Gray Area

A difficult conversation about the state of political journalism.

By Ezra Klein
The Gray Area
Patrick Deneen recommends 3 books on the failure of liberalismPatrick Deneen recommends 3 books on the failure of liberalism
Podcast
The Gray Area

The author of Why Liberalism Failed identifies liberalism’s flaws on The Ezra Klein Show.

By Emily Heller
The Gray Area
Francis Fukuyama recommends 2 books on tribalism in politicsFrancis Fukuyama recommends 2 books on tribalism in politics
Podcast
The Gray Area

The author of Identity makes a case against identity politics on the Ezra Klein Show.

By Emily Heller
The Gray Area
Carol Anderson recommends 4 books on America’s broken political systemCarol Anderson recommends 4 books on America’s broken political system
Podcast
The Gray Area

The author of One Person, No Vote talks gerrymandering and voter suppression on The Ezra Klein Show.

By Emily Heller
Podcasts
Martha C. Nussbaum recommends 3 books about her political heroesMartha C. Nussbaum recommends 3 books about her political heroes
Podcast
Podcasts

The philosopher talks fear and politics on the Ezra Klein Show.

By Emily Heller
Podcasts
David French recommends books on partisanship, identity politics, and interplanetary civil warDavid French recommends books on partisanship, identity politics, and interplanetary civil war
Podcast
Podcasts

The National Review writer talks “The Great White Culture War” on The Ezra Klein Show.

By Emily Heller
The Gray Area
Anand Giridharadas on the elite charade of changing the worldAnand Giridharadas on the elite charade of changing the world
Podcast
The Gray Area

“How can there be anything wrong with trying to do good? The answer may be: when the good is an accomplice to even greater, if more invisible, harm.”

By Ezra Klein
Podcasts
Chris Bailey recommends 3 books on getting the most out of your timeChris Bailey recommends 3 books on getting the most out of your time
Podcast
Podcasts

The author of Hyperfocus talks productivity and attention on The Ezra Klein Show.

By Emily Heller
Podcasts
11 podcast episodes to broaden your mind over Labor Day weekend11 podcast episodes to broaden your mind over Labor Day weekend
Podcast
Podcasts

What you should be listening to in the car, on a plane, or at home.

By Julie Bogen
Podcasts
N.K. Jemisin recommends stories from fellow groundbreaking sci-fi authorsN.K. Jemisin recommends stories from fellow groundbreaking sci-fi authors
Podcast
Podcasts

The Hugo Award–winning author walks Ezra Klein through her process of world-building.

By Emily Heller
Podcasts
Andrew Yang recommends 3 books on why the economy is failing Americans — and how to fix itAndrew Yang recommends 3 books on why the economy is failing Americans — and how to fix it
Podcast
Podcasts

The 2020 presidential candidate shares his vision for the future of work on the Ezra Klein Show.

By Emily Heller
Podcasts
Marcus Samuelsson recommends 3 books on his 2 great loves: soccer and cookingMarcus Samuelsson recommends 3 books on his 2 great loves: soccer and cooking
Podcast
Podcasts

The chef and host of No Passport Required talks creativity and diversity on The Ezra Klein Show.

By Emily Heller
Podcasts
Zeynep Tufekci recommends 3 books on how technology shapes usZeynep Tufekci recommends 3 books on how technology shapes us
Podcast
Podcasts

On the Ezra Klein Show, the technosociologist talks YouTube, censorship, and our “ex-reality TV star” president.

By Emily Heller
Podcasts
Sam Rosenfeld recommends 3 books on the history of American political polarizationSam Rosenfeld recommends 3 books on the history of American political polarization
Podcast
Podcasts

On The Ezra Klein Show, the political scientist explains how Republicans and Democrats became so divided.

By Emily Heller
Podcasts
Dani Rodrik recommends 3 books on the problems of globalismDani Rodrik recommends 3 books on the problems of globalism
Podcast
Podcasts

The economist appeared on The Ezra Klein Show to discuss Trump’s trade war.

By Emily Heller
Podcasts
Arthur Brooks recommends 3 books that challenged him to be betterArthur Brooks recommends 3 books that challenged him to be better
Podcast
Podcasts

The president of the American Enterprise Institute appeared on The Ezra Klein Show to talk about how to disagree well.

By Emily Heller
Podcasts
Dahlia Lithwick has been covering the Supreme Court for 20 years. She recommends one book about voter suppression.Dahlia Lithwick has been covering the Supreme Court for 20 years. She recommends one book about voter suppression.
Podcast
Podcasts

On the Ezra Klein Show, the Slate reporter tracks the Court’s role in politics and vice versa.

By Emily Heller
The Gray Area
America’s racial future is California’s presentAmerica’s racial future is California’s present
Podcast
The Gray Area

Los Angeles Mayor Eric Garcetti on governing a changing America.

By Ezra Klein
Podcasts
Eric Garcetti will probably run for president in 2020. His book recommendations from the Ezra Klein Show reflect it.Eric Garcetti will probably run for president in 2020. His book recommendations from the Ezra Klein Show reflect it.
Podcast
Podcasts

On the Ezra Klein Show this week, the mayor of Los Angeles talked about running one of the most diverse cities in the world

By Emily Heller
Podcasts
Ellen Pao recommends 3 books about race, resistance, and being an outsiderEllen Pao recommends 3 books about race, resistance, and being an outsider
Podcast
Podcasts

The former CEO of Reddit talks sexual harassment, diversity in tech, and what we got wrong about Silicon Valley.

By Emily Heller
Podcasts
Vegan activist Melanie Joy recommends 3 books on why we eat animalsVegan activist Melanie Joy recommends 3 books on why we eat animals
Podcast
Podcasts

Joy appeared on The Ezra Klein Show to talk about “carnism.”

By Emily Heller
Podcasts
The New Yorker’s Jane Mayer recommends 3 books about money and American politicsThe New Yorker’s Jane Mayer recommends 3 books about money and American politics
Podcast
Podcasts

On The Ezra Klein Show, the investigative reporter discusses torture, the radical right, and the #MeToo movement.

By Emily Heller
Podcasts
Mehrsa Baradaran loves giving book recommendationsMehrsa Baradaran loves giving book recommendations
Podcast
Podcasts

The author of The Color of Money thought carefully about the books she’d recommend on The Ezra Klein Show.

By Emily Heller
Podcasts
Tyler Cowen recommends “a pile of books” on The Ezra Klein ShowTyler Cowen recommends “a pile of books” on The Ezra Klein Show
Podcast
Podcasts

From Plato and Nietzsche to tennis and the Beatles.

By Emily Heller
Podcasts
Michael Pollan recommends 4 books that will change the way you think about your brainMichael Pollan recommends 4 books that will change the way you think about your brain
Podcast
Podcasts

The author of The Omnivore’s Dilemma appeared on The Ezra Klein Show to discuss his new book about the science of psychedelics.

By Emily Heller
The Gray Area
Jim and Deborah Fallows recommend 6 books that depict “the heart of America”Jim and Deborah Fallows recommend 6 books that depict “the heart of America”
Podcast
The Gray Area

And most of them were written before 1900.

By Emily Heller
Podcasts
The New York Times’s lead Clinton reporter recommends campaign reads for political junkiesThe New York Times’s lead Clinton reporter recommends campaign reads for political junkies
Podcast
Podcasts

Amy Chozick discussed her new book, Chasing Hillary, on The Ezra Klein Show.

By Emily Heller
Podcasts
4 books that will change the way you think about identity politics4 books that will change the way you think about identity politics
Podcast
Podcasts

Professor Lilliana Mason appeared on the Ezra Klein Show to discuss her new book on partisan “mega-identities.”

By Emily Heller
Podcasts
5 books making the case that American democracy is in trouble5 books making the case that American democracy is in trouble
Podcast
Podcasts

And offering solutions on how to save us from ourselves.

By Emily Heller
Podcasts
Johann Hari recommends 4 books on the state of mental health in AmericaJohann Hari recommends 4 books on the state of mental health in America
Podcast
Podcasts

The author of a new book on depression appeared on The Ezra Klein Show to discuss how society is keeping us from being happy.

By Emily Heller
Podcasts
Carol Anderson recommends 3 books that illustrate how American institutions are failing usCarol Anderson recommends 3 books that illustrate how American institutions are failing us
Podcast
Podcasts

The author of White Rage: The Unspoken Truth of Our Racial Divide appeared on a bonus episode of The Ezra Klein Show.

By Emily Heller
The Gray Area
The Sam Harris debateThe Sam Harris debate
Podcast
The Gray Area

Ezra and Sam Harris debate race, IQ, identity politics, and much more.

By Ezra Klein
Mark Zuckerberg on Facebook’s role in ethnic cleansing in Myanmar: “It’s a real issue”
Podcast
Technology

Critics say the social networking giant did not do enough to stop violence against the Rohingya.

By Jen Kirby
Mark Zuckerberg on Tim Cook’s criticism of Facebook: It’s “extremely glib and not aligned with the truth”
Podcast
Technology

Cook attacked Facebook for how it handles user data, calling users the social platform’s “product.”

By Jen Kirby
Mark Zuckerberg on Facebook’s hardest year, and what comes next
Podcast
A guide to the Cambridge Analytica Facebook scandal

“We will dig through this hole, but it will take a few years.”

By Ezra Klein